Happy Hour Culture: Confronting Alcohol in LGBTQ+ Spaces feat. Chris Tompkins

[00:00:17] Chris Angel Murphy: Well hello there. My name is Chris Angel and my pronouns are they/them. Welcome to Allyship is a Verb, the LGBTQ+ podcast that explores and humanizes practicing allyship for the LGBTQ+ community and beyond.

[00:00:38] Chris Tompkins: Hi, my name is Chris Tompkins, and my pronouns are he/him.

[00:00:42] Chris Angel Murphy: It was bound to happen that another guest on the show would be named Chris. You know, I, I actually used to be a barista years ago. And sometimes I'd pick up shifts for another local store. Every time without fail all three of us on shift were named Chris. And we lovingly called ourselves Chris cubed. But chaos, friends, chaos - it was very confusing. We absolutely amplified the chaos. And this is part of why I go by both my first and middle names. There are just too many Chrises in the world, and I am trying to stand out in a sea of them.

[00:01:17] Chris Angel Murphy: So anywho, this is not about me. My lovely guest, Chris, is a dear friend of mine. He's a consultant, speaker, teacher and life coach. I'd also personally describe him as a ball of love, joy, and light. And I do really mean that. He's one of those people who you just feel uplifted after connecting. And I mean, to be seen by him, just, it's just very validating. He's such a beautiful spirit. So truly, there's something special about his energy, and I hope that you get to experience some of that today. He's also the author of the book Raising LGBTQ Allies that came out - pun slightly intended - May 2021. So especially if you're a parent, or if you're working with kids, I'm gonna highly recommend this book. And who knows, you may learn some things about yourself along the way too.

[00:02:13] Chris Angel Murphy: Something I loved about our conversation is how intentional Chris is in sharing from his own experience and trying not to speak on behalf of a grouping of people, as well as checking for understanding. Those active listening skills are on point! And he also gave a really good TEDx talk, so please do make sure that you check out his episode page to see all the wonderful stuff that he's up to.

[00:02:36] Chris Angel Murphy: And now I'm trying something a little bit different, so here are some self-reflection questions. I'm going to give you a few before the conversation, and a few after to just help give you some things to think about while you're listening. Number one, do I make space for people in my life who are sober? Number two, are there many events near me that don't revolve around or include alcohol? Number three, do I attend any events called happy hour, whether or not anyone drinks? Just some stuff to think about. And now, to the conversation.

[00:03:12] Chris Angel Murphy: You call yourself a "LGBTQ inner advocate"? I haven't heard that term or expression before. What does that mean?

[00:03:23] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, it's a - [Chris Tompkins laughs] it's a good question. I think, um, when I, I have - I often get the same kind of response of, "Well, what does that mean?" Um, I think - and if I could just say too that I actually intentionally use that because it does evoke a curiosity with, with people and asking the question that we get to talk about it. So I'm grateful that you asked. Um, so for me, an LGBTQ inner advocate really came from my, my experience after I came out of the closet. I immersed myself in LGBTQ advocacy work. And what I found, my own journey, is that that was a lot of external work. I was focused on external, like, helping others, helping the community. And what I didn't do was I didn't - I went from out of the closet, like years of in the closet, out of the closet, to immediately focusing on others.

[00:04:25] Chris Tompkins: And so what I like I said didn't do was I didn't focus on myself and a lot of healing that I needed to really look at. Because years in the closet is a lot of darkness. And so for me, being an LGBTQ inner advocate, I feel like especially in advocacy work self-care is so important. I, I love that you often talk about that even in our email exchanges. You're really encouraging, like, I've - I felt very, I felt very validated and affirmed just through your emails, because you've been really - you focus on self-care.

[00:05:04] Chris Angel Murphy: What my lovely friend here is referring to is in my email signature. Not only do I have my name, my pronouns, my websites, but I also have this blurb that I put in - gosh, I don't know, at some point in 2021, where it says, "Please know that I honor and respect boundaries around personal time, wellbeing, caretaking, and rest. Should you receive correspondence from me during a time that you're engaging in any of the above, please protect your time and wait to respond until you're next working or in front of a computer. Prioritize joy, not email, when and where you can."

[00:05:52] Chris Angel Murphy: Now, this is not original to me, I've seen it somewhere else and I've adopted it. And same thing, people have seen my version and adopted it. And honestly, I just think it's such a game-changer, because I can't tell you how many people actually number one, read my email signature, [Chris Angel laughs] but also just really resonated with that and love that as a value. So it feels really good, and should you be inspired to do a version for yourself, please do.

[00:06:24] Chris Tompkins: LGBTQ advocate is having self-care, filling my cup up, taking care of myself so that I can be more effective in the world with the work that I do. So for me, being a LGBTQ advocate is healing this stuff inside myself, working on myself, making myself a priority. And then I'm so much more effective in the conversations I have, and I have much more to offer.

[00:06:50] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, thank you, first off.

[00:06:52] Chris Tompkins: Yes, yes of course! [Chris Angel laughs]

[00:06:54] Chris Angel Murphy: Um, and secondly, inspired to then ask you - so in your book, you talk about how you're also an ally to yourself. I'm interested in understanding for you, what are the differences of being that inner advocate, and then also, then, an ally?

[00:07:17] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, we really can only take others as far as we've gone ourselves. And so if I haven't done the things that I'm advocating for, with others - because it's so easy, in my own experience, if I am not doing the inner work within myself to uncover, to unlearn, to even be curious - then I'm not able to take others very far. Like, the inner advocate is the - is the one of my - the, the part of myself that's doing the work of unlearning, healing, growing, self-care. And the ally is the one who's supporting me to do that. Because we do need to be our own champions, because I can be really quick to "Oh, I don't need to do it today," or "Oh I, I don't need to, you know," and then I kind of can burn through. And so the ally is the one who's like the support. And I feel like that also looks like allyship in the world. It's the support that we need to be able to do the stuff that we can't ourselves do.

[00:08:33] Chris Angel Murphy: Absolutely. You're also an uncle.

[00:08:36] Chris Tompkins: Yes.

[00:08:36] Chris Angel Murphy: "Guncle."

[00:08:37] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, guncle.

[00:08:37] Chris Angel Murphy: [Chris Angel laughs] Which is - which doesn't come out super great like I thought it would in my head, but guncle is a term for gay uncles.

[00:08:45] Chris Tompkins: Yeah.

[00:08:45] Chris Angel Murphy: Does that term resonate with you? And how do you generally feel about it?

[00:08:49] Chris Tompkins: The term, I think, really, in my experience, was kind of like a hashtag that was on Instagram, you know, so guncle - guncles. And so a lot of the conversations that I talk about are with - in my book, I - are from my conversations with my nieces, my nieces and nephews. And so, um, when I started to kind of think about, well, there are other uncles out there that are like me who live outside of their hometowns where they're from, who maybe aren't in relationships. And so I started to get curious about well, how - how is it for them when they go back to visit their families? Do their families talk about their being gay, or you know, because it's really easy for me, it was really easy for me to kind of go back to my hometown and to kind of separate my identity, you know, to code switch.

[00:09:43] Chris Angel Murphy: "Code switch." Let's make sure that we all understand this one. So, according to a BBC News article, code switching is when a person in a minority group tones down some of the most obvious elements that associates them with their community to fit into a more mainstream group. Meaning, if I'm LGBTQ+, that I try to hide anything that I think would help to give that away. We can do this when we don't feel safe or aren't sure about a situation that we might be in in that moment.

[00:10:18] Chris Tompkins: To act more, you know, um, masculine and heteronormative. And so, so that's kind of, to answer the question, it was a way for me to connect with more gay uncles. How I feel about it is that it's a fun - it's a fun term. Um, I don't really, like, correct people if they call me an uncle and say, "No, I'm a guncle."

[00:10:40] Chris Angel Murphy: [Chris Angel laughs] Right.

[00:10:41] Chris Tompkins: It's more of just kind of like a play on words for me at least.

[00:10:44] Chris Angel Murphy: Right. Like, like on the card that you get -

[00:10:47] Chris Tompkins: Exactly, yeah, like a -

[00:10:49] Chris Angel Murphy: Like it's saying, "I love you. I love my guncle!" Yeah.

[00:10:51] Chris Tompkins: Totally. Yeah. Like, I think they even had like a, a "guncle day," um.

[00:10:56] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah, they do.

[00:10:57] Chris Tompkins: They do. Yeah, yeah. And, and like a shirt that you can get. Which - yeah, yeah. So it's, it's kind of for me like a fun term.

[00:11:06] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah, that makes sense. We met because we served on the Los Angeles PFLAG Speaker's Bureau as volunteers. We'd get asked to speak to various educational institutions, high schools, college campuses, churches even, all sorts of places. Certainly sharing your story has had an impact on the people who listen to us. And something that you talk about in your book is "authentic power," that when we share authentically from our hearts, the power we tap into. I'm curious about a few things. What is it like for you to share your story, and what kind of impact has that had on your life?

[00:11:53] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, that's a beautiful question. Sharing my story has had a huge impact on my life, um, I think because for a long time, I didn't feel like I could share my story. And the more I started to tell my story, the more that people could relate. Because maybe my story looks different, as far as like the specific details, we can all relate to maybe the same feelings or emotions, the same struggles. And so that's also where I felt empowered, because I was actually, I felt like I was giving something back and maybe allowing another person to maybe see a part of their story in a new way.

[00:12:35] Chris Tompkins: That's what I love so much about, and still love so much, even with Zoom, about being able to speak on PFLAG Speaker's Bureau, because I've been a part of PFLAG for, gosh, like, maybe six or seven years. And my favorite, favorite part of, of being involved with PFLAG is being able to go into, like you mentioned, schools or workplaces and, and share our stories. And I learned so much, because we're often on panels with people who are there speaking, we don't know them in person, but they're on the Speaker's Bureau, who live in another part of town and we all come together. You learn so much. And then the audience learns so much. And we just leave there feeling like I did something beneficial, [Chris Tompkins laughs] um, to help further the conversation, um, when those people go back to their homes, and maybe they saw the LGBTQ community in a - in a new way. Um, so it's been a huge, huge impact on my life.

[00:13:45] Chris Angel Murphy: I agree, and the same goes for me. Something else I'm wondering too is, you know, uh, sometimes people think they're owed our stories. Not all of us do feel comfortable sharing our stories, you know, it's maybe still being written or we're still grappling with getting support or understanding who we are, it can be so new to us, or just we simply don't want to, that's our firm boundary. So I'm guessing if you can touch more on that.

[00:14:15] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And thank you for, for bringing that up, because that's really, I think important to consider because you do not owe your story to anyone. And not everyone is deserving of hearing your story.

[00:14:29] Chris Angel Murphy: Something that's been interesting for me over the years as I've shared my story, and having been on panels with you, is my story has changed.

[00:14:38] Chris Tompkins: Yes.

[00:14:39] Chris Angel Murphy: It's not because I can't remember the details or anything like that. It's been a combination of - my story changes as I heal. I tell things differently.

[00:14:51] Chris Tompkins: Mhm.

[00:14:51] Chris Angel Murphy: And another part too is - and I know you're tapped into spirituality in your own way, as am I.

[00:14:58] Chris Tompkins: Mhm.

[00:14:59] Chris Angel Murphy: This feeling of there's someone in the room who needs to hear my story in a certain way. I don't know who it is, or what they need to hear. But I can't help but feel that. I don't think about it too much, I trust that it'll flow out, but I'm curious if that's a similar experience for you, or has that ever happened for you?

[00:15:21] Chris Tompkins: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. I think that, you - you know, what I, what I heard from what you said sounds very similar to, like, the "12 step structure." I don't know how familiar - but when people share at meetings, the lead sharer, kind of the structure of that share is what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. And often when, when, when someone shares their story they're sharing it for the newcomers, meaning that there, there's someone in the room - like you, like you literally just said, you know - there's someone in the room who needs to hear my story. From the - and, and it changes, you know, because maybe when you're newer in 12 steps, you're sharing more of what it was like, so that kind of takes up a majority of the story. Then the what happened, and then what it's like now, is maybe smaller, because you're newer. And then as you grow in your recovery - and for me, as I've grown in my advocacy work, and, and doing my own work - then maybe my story isn't so much about what it was like, now I really focus on what it's like now. The essence still remains and I'm, I'm still mindful of, of speaking to the newcomers, so to speak, or someone in the room who needs to hear the story in, in the way that I'm, I'm able to offer it. And that's where my spirituality comes in because I kind of just, I'm there to be of service.

[00:16:45] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah, and I've noticed you're sober these days without attending AA. I'm wondering if you feel comfortable sharing about how that works for you. And just to give some background, there's a lot of folks who believe that's the only way to do it. But I think that's very limiting.

[00:17:01] Chris Tompkins: Sure, yeah. Yeah, well, I think for me, when I first came out, I immersed myself in LGBTQ advocacy work, I, I used to go to a lot of HRC functions and, and a lot of, um, you know, pride events and, and it just - it seemed, in my experience, that a lot of everything that I did related around alcohol. And so I was wondering, I was curious, like, why, why is this such a big part of my advocacy work? Um, and so I also was really deeply on my own spiritual path. I was doing a lot of my own work, meaning around forgiveness and cleaning up my side of the street. And because AA - any 12 step program - the number one thing that, like, they, these, they say is that this is a spiritual program. That's kind of the first thing.

[00:17:56] Chris Tompkins: Giving up drinking was a spiritual thing for me. It was, uh, between me and my higher power, it was something that was connected to a - a lot of the reasons I drank was because I didn't feel good about myself. I didn't have the self esteem, I was trying to be someone that I wasn't. So all, all of that stuff was - I think what you do when you "work a program," quotes, like a - like a 12 step program. It was that I found my way to sobriety without going to AA.

[00:18:03] Chris Angel Murphy: Mhm.

[00:18:33] Chris Tompkins: There are other ways around sobriety. I think that I used to think that 12 steps was the only way for someone to, to reach sobriety. There are other ways. I do think that some people, there are some people who just really need a 12 step program, because 12 steps are wonderful in the sense that they offer support, they offer structure, there are meetings, you work with a sponsor generally. And so someone who is tru- like, just, really... I, I never want to say, "Oh, yeah, your kind of behavior would warrant this" or "Your kind of behavior would warrant that." For me, I was just really blessed and grateful that - which, ultimately, I think is the first step, if you're familiar with the steps, is the first step is we admitted we are powerless, powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable. So I had, I was taking the first step without knowing that I was taking the first step, because my life was unmanageable.

[00:19:34] Chris Angel Murphy: [Chris Angel hums in acknowledgment] When I'm thinking about AA meetings, and someone who's part of the LGBTQ+ community, I think about access and finding community that's affirming. I'm seeing like a Venn diagram in my brain of people who are affirming of LGBTQ+ people, and then also the AA component, right? So, being somewhere in Los Angeles, it's a little bit easier to find that overlap. So I guess I'm wondering, do you find that's important to connect to? I'm thinking of folks who are in rural areas struggling.

[00:20:16] Chris Tompkins: Yeah.

[00:20:17] Chris Angel Murphy: That may or may not have access to this kind of space with that overlap. And certainly you being a gay man, a guncle, and all of these lovely identities you carry, they're part of you, and not solely who you are as a person. But do you feel like that's something that's important to this part of your program?

[00:20:35] Chris Tompkins: In your question, what I, I feel like is layered is heteronormativity. And I think that heteronormativity is, is it's a force, it is a force, it is pervasive, and it is an invisible force. And so I think that for folks who are in rural communities, you know, 12 step meetings a lot in my experience, you know, they have what's called "outside issues." And so they only focus on drinking, recovery, those kinds of things, or whatever the 12 step program you're in, um. And so something like being a gay man, and wanting to kind of share my experience of that, to some would be considered an outside issue.

[00:21:22] Chris Tompkins: And, and I think that LA has incredible recovery, and to your point has a lot of really affirming spaces. I do still think that heteronormativity is literally, it's a, it's like - heteronormativity is like humidity. It's like a, it's like you, you go to some places, and it's just, it's thick in the air, it's, you feel it, it's sticky. And I think that some spaces are like that, without even realizing it. And you may not even realize it, but you're just noticing, "Gosh, I'm sweating more," like, or "Gosh, is it stuffy in here?" And you're not even really aware that it's human. Because it's not just alcoholism, it's not just addiction, it's, it's the feeling like I'm not worthy enough, feeling like I'm undeserving, feeling like I don't matter, that I'm - and those are all the reasons that a lot of people, myself included, used substances.

[00:22:20] Chris Tompkins: And so you, you can't separate that from someone's experience of - well, that's also similar to how I felt like, because I was gay. I was in the closet, I didn't feel seen, I was given these messages of what I was told what a boy is supposed to be like. And, and that also developed myself, has formed my self-esteem and formed how I related with the world. And so it, it's kind of like they're, they're fused together. And so if I'm not able to talk about that, as it relates to my experience of a gay man, I'm not able to fully tell my story.

[00:23:01] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah, it's these different lenses to look through. And I love what you said around the humidity piece. It's such a beautiful way of explaining it, even though it's not a beautiful concept, right? [Chris Angel laughs] Heteronormativity.

[00:23:17] Chris Tompkins: Right.

[00:23:17] Chris Angel Murphy: So for folks who live on the East Coast of the States, humidity is life.

[00:23:22] Chris Tompkins: Totally.

[00:23:23] Chris Angel Murphy: They're used to it more. And so when I come in from the West Coast, I'm uncomfortable, I'm sweating, nothing makes me feel better. You shower, and two seconds later, you're outside and it hits you again. So what a powerful visual.

[00:23:39] Chris Angel Murphy: When I think about the LGBTQ+ community overall, I don't know that we always do a good job of being accessible. Sometimes that can be wheelchair access. It can be American Sign Language interpreters, or ASL, or Spanish translations, things like that. And I think growing up as a young person in this community, it was like really frustrating that there just weren't enough youth events at the time. And we have like a few things from the community, like, Models of Pride conference, and we had a gay prom and things like that. But, you know, especially as a young adult, in my early 20s, everything was just so hyperfixated on alcohol, and "Yay, gay people are so fun," and "We got to drink to have fun" and dance and like - that was it. That felt like that was the culture.

[00:24:29] Chris Angel Murphy: Right.

[00:24:29] Chris Angel Murphy: That was what you could do. So just really disheartening. It doesn't always feel like an accessible space, especially if folks are working through sobriety. A lot of pride events I've been to it's a main sponsor, lots of alcohol and dancing. And so I guess I'm just wondering, are there certain spaces that don't feel accessible to you or - and, and people you care about, or what are your thoughts in general? Um, so, share - share what you feel moved to share. I don't, I don't want to box you in.

[00:25:02] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, no, thank you so much. You said so many really important, I think, things, and I'm really grateful that, that you are asking this question, because - so I'm in graduate school right now, and I'm at - this isn't the call out podcast! [Chris Angel laughs] I do though think - and I would like to share kind of an example of what you just asked about spaces. And so I'm, I'm going to school, and the program that I'm, I'm at, at Antioch is the LGBT specialization. That's - they have different specializations. One of them is, is LGBT specialization. And so it's been interesting to me, in my time, is that every, I don't know if it's every week, maybe it's every month, but they have the - I'm on an email list for the specialization, they send out an email for - especially because of Zoom, because of, of the pandemic, they've been having these happy hours, they call them, they call them happy hours, you know. "Come and, and every Sunday, you know, it's the LGBT specialization happy hour."

[00:26:10] Chris Tompkins: And I didn't realize it until a few quarters in, maybe my - after my second quarter, I was like, I don't - like, they're promoting this as the very thing that I don't feel comfortable - I don't go to happy hours. And, and so to even, to even promote it as a happy hour to me speaks to the prevalence of drinking. I just don't have - I don't have any, I didn't have any interest in, in, in partic- even though it's on Zoom, and I don't have to have a drink in my home, you know, to participate. So I just wanted to share that because I think that's another example of how pervasive like drinking substances is, not - not just in the LGBTQ community, I mean, it is just in, in general. Um, advertisements, alcohol, like all of that.

[00:27:06] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:27:06] Chris Tompkins: I was in charge of a new member recruitment event. And it was to reach this very specific demographic for the organization, it was a membership driven organization. And one of the primary events that I was responsible for was called TGIF. And it was where we would find a bar, in a community and in a big city, which had, you know, that was where we were trying to maybe recruit more members from that particular city, geographic location. And, and it was - it was always at a bar. And when I, when I found the first venue that was at a non-bar, I remember I got called into the, the executive's office, and they told me that I could not have the event, even though the place was willing to give us a really great discount. It was a new establishment.

[00:27:54] Chris Angel Murphy: Wow.

[00:27:54] Chris Tompkins: Um, and, and specifically, I remember exactly what they said to me: they said, "The - the bar is for the LGBTQ community what the church is for straight people. And so if we're going to reach this particular group, we need to have this event at a bar." And that to me kind of was, "Oh, okay." Like that basically set the tone for, uh, my experience of, of working, and specifically working on this event.

[00:28:25] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to pose this as a conversation saying "You can't have happy hours!" That's, that's not the answer.

[00:28:32] Chris Tompkins: Totally, totally.

[00:28:34] Chris Angel Murphy: And, and recognize - and!

[00:28:37] Chris Tompkins: And!

[00:28:38] Chris Angel Murphy: You need varied events. And you need to think about -

[00:28:41] Chris Tompkins: Yes.

[00:28:42] Chris Angel Murphy: Who's not there? And why?

[00:28:45] Chris Tompkins: Yes, yes. Thank you for that. Perfect. [Chris Angel laughs] Yes, exactly.

[00:28:52] Chris Angel Murphy: Switching gears a bit, you came out in Mexico, and automatically - I'm a person here in the United States who consumes questionable media. [Both laugh] There's this thing where - and this really exists here - when there's a country like Mexico, there's this dang yellow tint and guitar music, like "duh-nuh-nuhh," weeds tumbling along, like, there's a whole vibe.

[00:29:16] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:16] Chris Angel Murphy: And I mean, this could be a whole other episode in itself, so. But I'm thinking about that, and "machismo." I'm curious about how you define it, and if it's something you've experienced or bumped up against, because the way I've heard it described is what I would call "toxic masculinity" here. And so when I - when I think about you coming out in Mexico, I'm wondering, you know, is that even a safe space to come out? Because I just, I have all of these ideas, myths, misconceptions, generalizations going on in my head, because of our media here in the States. So, I guess, yeah, can you share more about that?

[00:29:53] Chris Tompkins: Yeah. Thank you. I think that - I mean, to your point about being in the United States, I'm from Arizona. So I'm from Tucson, Arizona, specifically, which is very close to the US-Mexico border. And the messages that I received living in Tucson were pervasive as far as, uh, negative, you know, messages about Mexico and going across the border and, and border cities. And, and, you know, my - my family, my sister, you know, my stepdad who raised me is Mexican, and my sister, she's my half sister, technically, but I, I would never say that, just to say that my, you know, stepdad who raised me is, is my stepdad. [Chris Tompkins laughs] But my sister - so my family's Mexican, and so to, you know, grow up and to receive those messages, and then to move to Mexico myself and to learn - rather, unlearn - that, "Oh, my gosh, this is" - you know.

[00:30:58] Chris Tompkins: I remember when I lived in Mexico - so I came out in Mexico because I was living there. It was one of the first jobs that I had when I - when I, after I graduated college. And I remember I had some friends from the US that were coming to visit me where I lived. And I remember when they got there, I took them to a mall. And they were like, "Mexico has mall-?" [Chris Angel laughs] Like, "There are malls in Mexico?!" And, and, and, and I took them to this mall, and they were so astonished. And that's sad, because that just speaks to -

[00:31:29] Chris Tompkins: You know, just the other day I was Googling, I, I was going to send my picture - my friend a picture of Mexico City where I've had the opportunity to spend some time at recently, and there, there was a me- there were a lot of memes that show this filter, this color filter. There are certain filters - you mentioned media - there are certain filters that we see in movies that filmmakers use to make a scene feel more scary. And so whenever South America - specifically Mexico - is used in a movie, they use this filter. And so it seems like this very scary, um, dangerous place. And then they'll - then they con- so that meme contrasts that, you know, what Mexico is like, what Mexico is like from US moviegoers. And it's just, it's astonishing to see the feeling that you get from just the differences of the filters. So -

[00:32:26] Chris Angel Murphy: Exactly.

[00:32:27] Chris Tompkins: Going back to your question about machismo. So when I, when I lived in Mexico, you know, Latin American culture very much there is a machismo culture. And there's also what's called "marianismo," which I'm not sure if, if you've heard - your listeners have heard of, but it's kind of the same side of - the other side of the same coin. Where you have, in a lot of Latin communities, there - the, the father, the kind of, the patriarch is the breadwinner, is the, is the kind of - the dominant force, and the mother is like the Virgin Mary - because there's a lot of Catholicism, it's kind of rooted in religion - is where she's the nurturing, the motherly figure.

[00:33:11] Chris Tompkins: And so what's interesting is that - so, in Spanish, in Mexico specifically, you have "padre" and "madre." And when you're - so, those literally mean "mother," "father." And what's interesting is that in just language, you - whenever I want to say something's cool, I would say "que padre," which literally translated means "that" - or, "what father," but it actually is a, it's a phrase that you would say to say, "Oh, how cool!" Like, "That's cool." So, "Oh, que padre! How cool!" When I want to say something negative, I say "a la madre." "Chinga la madre." So pardon for my French because those are cuss words, but, um.

[00:33:57] Chris Angel Murphy: [Chris Angel laughs] Yeah.

[00:33:59] Chris Tompkins: It - it's funny saying "pardon my French" when I was saying something in Spanish, but -

[00:34:02] Chris Angel Murphy: I was thinking that.

[00:34:02] Chris Tompkins: [Chris Tompkins laughs] So my point though, is that "a la madre," "chinga la madre" - "mother" is associated bad - in, in a bad way, in a negative - in a negative way. So even in the language, that's how pervasive it is, where the mother is lifted up and looked upon as this, you know, revered being, and she's also denigrated. And so the father's cool, looked up to and revered. Um, and it - this is very, very layered and, and, and nuanced, and I'm sharing from my experience of what it was like growing up with a father who - stepfather - who is Hispanic and was very machismo. A lot of the messages that I received as a young gay child.

[00:34:50] Chris Tompkins: I, I - my, my stepdad did not know how to relate to me as a child because of his own machismo, and that's not to say anything negative, necessarily, about - because I understand that he only knew what he was taught, and he grew up with himself. And that's - what I hope to do with the book is to be able to have conversations so we can kind of, like, talk about it and explore it and unlearn it, um. Because it is pervasive, you know, just like heteronormativity is a force, so is machismo. It's the same thing in, in, in Mexico, and I remember a lot of my friends shared this with me, it's the same thing in Mexico that says that a man - it's okay for a married man to have affairs, but it's not okay for a, a married woman. I mean, God forbid that she would ever do that. Like, that's machismo. And that's kind of the force. And then if you unpack that, how that relates to sexuality and gender - and, and that's connected to the LGBTQ community. And that's connected to the messages that, that children receive, just by being virt- just by virtue of being socialized in whatever dominant culture that they are.

[00:36:13] Chris Angel Murphy: Right. Because when I was younger, some of the messages I received, especially related to Mexico, were "homosexual." And I use that intentionally. But the term homosexual, my understanding is that it meant something different in Mexico, and that it was more act-based, sexual behaviors.

[00:36:38] Chris Tompkins: Mm, mhm.

[00:36:38] Chris Angel Murphy: That there were basically, I'll - [Chris Angel laughs] I'll just say it because we're here, but that "homosexual" was a more, uh, submissive term, in terms of sexual acts. And the other, let's say, partner then wasn't actually homosexual. It was just sex.

[00:37:02] Chris Tompkins: Right.

[00:37:03] Chris Angel Murphy: But it was - let's say the person on the receiving end, um, was - okay. Let's talk about it in terms of top and bottom. [Chris Angel laughs]

[00:37:12] Chris Tompkins: Yeah.

[00:37:12] Chris Angel Murphy: I feel like it's easier because I'm doing all of these dances -

[00:37:15] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, yeah!

[00:37:15] Chris Angel Murphy: - around what I want to say, but yeah. So basically, tops, you weren't homosexual. It was just sex and people got it.

[00:37:23] Chris Tompkins: Right.

[00:37:23] Chris Angel Murphy: Almost like, not to be crude, but "a hole is a hole." But then, you're homosexual if you're a bottom, and that's super binary, all of these things. And I - I'm not saying I am subscribing to this, but it's just something that I heard. So I guess I'm curious, is this something you heard or experienced when in Mexico, or messages you were taught as well?

[00:37:46] Chris Tompkins: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and still, I think still, I think that, you know, even in Mexico City - Mexico City is kind of like the New York of, of Mexico. It's, it's a very big city. It's, it's, it, it reminds me, like, just physically - you walk everywhere, or you can at least walk. Um, it's a very walkable city. It - the transportation, it's just very reminiscent of New York. And so, um, I would say that it's more LGBTQ friendly. When I was there, I was there in June, and they had rainbow flags everywhere. It was very, you know, you often see couples walking around - same-sex couples. Um. And, and, and - what's also interesting is that you - so that this is a really big conversation. So -

[00:38:41] Chris Angel Murphy: [Chris Angel laughs] Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:42] Chris Tompkins: So I'm trying not to, like, go down a whole another territory, but, but I did - I have experienced that it's more socially acceptable to be top than it is to be a bottom. And that's also the case in my experience of being a gay man in the United States. Um, he - even here in West Hollywood, where I, where I live. And, and so I think that there are nuances to the differences. And there also are so many similarities, and I think, I think that they, they really speak to the overarching kind of dominant, just patriarchal kind of structure that, unfortunately, is, is very dominating across the world.

[00:39:34] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah, and the broader LGBTQ+ community isn't, like, opted out from that. Because if you download gay hookup apps like Scruff and Grindr, you'll see people say things like "no femmes," "masc for masc." So you see it's very much invasive. Even in our community.

[00:39:59] Chris Tompkins: Oh, yeah, I mean, it, it, it very much is. And what's unfortunate, I think, is that, you know, similarly to how social media - a lot of people kind of say things, like, on Twitter or on social media, like, comments. People kind of say things on social media that they wouldn't necessarily - or act in ways on social media they wouldn't necessarily act in person. That is similar to, in my experience, to, like, things like Scruff or Grindr. It's like, you know, we don't really maybe say these things out loud. We think them, and so then we say them in spaces like Grindr, or Scruff, because we're not - this kind of goes back to the inner advocacy part. We're not really doing the work within ourselves, and so we're kind of... We're being the oppressors. And that's often what happens, you know, when, when you're oppressed for so long is that you kind of take that out on your own - on your own people.

[00:41:09] Chris Angel Murphy: I agree. And I'm wondering, has there been a time in your life you could have done a better job of practicing allyship? And what do you do differently now?

[00:41:23] Chris Tompkins: Yeah. [Chris Tompkins sighs] I, I do. I think that in my own experience of... I, I worked at a bar for a very long time, for 11 years, and this bar served the LGBTQ community, it considers themselves a gay bar. Um, I think that that's not necessarily the right, like, description, because we serve many members of the LGBTQ community. And, and so in my experience of working there, I feel like there were times - many times - where I heard things about certain members of the community that, because I didn't feel maybe comfortable enough in my own skin to go against the norm, then I didn't say anything.

[00:42:18] Chris Tompkins: And so there were many times where, where that would happen. And it was only until I started to kind of - what we talked about, telling my own story and exploring my own story and doing my own work - that I was getting to the place where I was developing that authentic sense of being, that I felt comfortable enough in my own skin to kind of, you know, like we talked about, you know, I was being the LGBTQ inner advocate for myself. So then, therefore, I was able to, to allow the ally to step in and say, "Hmm, that's not - I don't think that's - not a good thing to say." Or, "Is that true?" Or, you know, calling out, you know, something that maybe it's not funny.

[00:43:07] Chris Angel Murphy: Can you share about a time you felt truly supported by someone and what they did to show up for you?

[00:43:15] Chris Tompkins: I think most recently, the first - I'll just go with the first thing that comes to my mind. Um, you know, writing a book is a very - in my experience, has been a very uncomfortable thing. It's brought up all of my - [Chris Tompkins laughs] It's allowed all the things that were in the crevices to come out. And so it's been a very healing experience, has also been super challenging, and it's been super vulnerable. And so most recently, um, I had a conversation with one of my friends who is, um, he's a pastor, he's the minister of a church. And we've been friends for a long time, and he's very supportive of me. We've had many conversations about myself being, you know, gay and, and what that's been like, and, and so, I guess - so to answer your question, is that he read my book, and he called me and wanted - and set up, we set up a Zoom, two Zooms actually, because the conversation was, you know, so great the first time. But he wanted to talk about, you know, how he could be a better ally for the LGBTQ community at his church.

[00:44:31] Chris Tompkins: And, and so for me, like just the fact that - and he has, I think, three or four kids, he's married, like, he's a busy person - and that he was that invested. Because it does - I mean, I don't know how many books I've started where I haven't finished, you know, so. I mean, I know that reading a book is a commitment and especially if it's, it's, if it's subject matter that I mean, I, I think that - you know, you really have to have a reason to read my book. And so to me that felt very supportive, not just because it was, like, air quotes, "my book," but it was that he was willing to, to hear me and to see me and to learn about me. And to take that and share it with others so that he - and that's really what this is all about, is that when we can take something that we've learned, and then share it with others so that others', others' lives can be, you know, that much better.

[00:45:37] Chris Angel Murphy: I mean, that's kind of like the ultimate compliment, right? I mean, because not only is he supporting you in purchasing the book, but he's taking it to that next step by, uh, actively having that conversation with you to apply it to his life, and people that he'll be able to impact.

[00:45:57] Chris Tompkins: Yeah.

[00:45:57] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, my goodness, we have been on quite the adventure today. So, super appreciate you going into all of these various territories with me. And to round things out, what's one allyship tip you'd like for everyone listening to consider?

[00:46:18] Chris Tompkins: To ask me questions and to be interested in learning about my experiences. And I think that where that comes from, is that sometimes in the conversations that I have - because maybe the, the LGBTQ community looks differently from when, you know, 30 years ago, 40 years ago - that sometimes it's easy to, to say that certain things don't exist anymore. And so sometimes when I share challenges, or like the conversations that we've been having, I have had in the past some people be really quick to kind of, "Well, you know, there's so much great," you know. And, and that's true - and that feels very invalidating. Be open to hearing about someone's experience and, and, and to validate that.

[00:47:28] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, goodness, I am so grateful to Chris for being so vulnerable and sharing his experiences with us today. Please, go purchase his book, Raising LGBTQ Allies. I'll have a link to it on the episode page. And hang on for just a few more moments because I've got more self-reflection questions for you before we part ways.

[00:47:52] Chris Angel Murphy: Number four, has someone ever applied silver lining to a hardship I was experiencing? How did it feel for me? Number five, what messages did I receive on the playground? And number six, does where I live accurately portray the world around me, or are there filters?

[00:48:18] Chris Angel Murphy: Visit allyshipisaverb.com for any resources and a full transcript of the episode. And remember, sometimes allyship means validating our experiences.