[00:00:00] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, hello there. My name is Chris Angel and my pronouns are they/them. Welcome to Allyship is a Verb, the LGBTQ+ podcast that explores and humanizes practicing allyship for the LGBTQ+ community and beyond!

[00:00:37] Mister Larrie: Hey there, I'm Mister Larrie, and my pronouns are he/him/his.

[00:00:41] Chris Angel Murphy: Good grief Charlie Brown. I wasn't sure I was gonna be able to get this episode done in time, because Covid finally got me and it's knocked me on my ass for a week and I'm confident I'm gonna be sick for quite a while longer. However, something serendipitous happened that was very timely for this episode. One of the ways I've been dealing with being sick was by watching the series "Insecure" on HBO. And it's not something I normally have access to, but it was recommended by a close friend.

And My goodness. I don't wanna spoil anything for anyone who hasn't watched it, but it is a brilliant show about sexuality, mental health, relationships, and so much more, following this core friend group of Black women in their late twenties. And the way that they address mental health in the later seasons echoes some of the conversation I have with Mister Larrie today. I highly recommend it.

It also reminds me of my conversation with Ra Ra, for those of you who have listened to that episode. In fact Ra Ra has been very vocal on LinkedIn that he's already gotten out of the role of being a psychotherapist and moved on to another career entirely for his own well-being. And I get it, that's a huge reason why I'm not in a formal social work role anymore. And now I'm focused on doing LGBTQ+ training and consulting and education and community organizing in general, on my own.

But because I am still sick, I'm worried about launching into coughing fits and not being able to finish this episode. So let me tell you about why I adore Mister Larrie so that we can get into the conversation. You may have already seen his bright and colorful videos on places like YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. I've certainly shared them in my stories before. Originally from Louisiana, he spent quite a few years in Ohio before moving on to Florida, where he now resides.

He's a ridiculously talented designer, fine artist, and crafts enthusiast. He worked in education for a decade guiding young creatives and his professional background focuses on visual design, teaching, and creative directing. His story also includes fine art, theater, and fashion. If you'd like to be exposed to different kinds of crafts and art while weaving in mental health in honest and inspiring ways, he's your person.

And now three self-reflection questions. Be sure to stay after the convo for three more.

1. How have I taken care of my mental health in the past week?

2. When was the last time I played with crayons, color, pencils, or a similar medium?

3. What kinds of art have I made in the past that I might want to try again?

And now, our conversation.

On that lovely note. Thank you. Now I'm blushing. Okay, [Mister Larrie laughs] cool. So [Chris Angel laughs], you are Black, cisgender, and gay. What do those intersections mean to you?

[00:03:53] Mister Larrie: They represent a lot of inner turmoil and, a great deal of, of need for discovery. Because when you have all those sort of things mixed together and you struggle with each of them individually and feeling like you belong in those spaces. Putting them all together just makes it, you know, so much more dynamic and, and it can be really overwhelming trying to find a space where all of those things are okay to be.

[00:04:22] Chris Angel Murphy: I really appreciate you sharing that because something that's been important to my journey was finding who I felt were my people, and I can say that I've only more recently found them like within the past year or so. And by that I mean communities I feel like represent me most and that I hold closest to my heart.

[00:04:42] Chris Angel Murphy: So like I remember baby Chris Angel in high school. I felt a heightened sense of pressure of like figuring it out. And although I knew I was like an outcast of sorts because I hung out with the theater kids and the band kids and skaters and, and all of that, I never fit neatly into any of those boxes. So I ended up having friends from all over, but never felt at home with any of them.

And now my sweet spot is those who are either queer and/or trans and at the intersection of neuro divergence at some place, like whether it's autism, ADHD, something like that. So that, that feels like home to me. So that said, are there any communities that feel very close to you that you feel like you're at home with them and they are your people?

[00:05:35] Mister Larrie: I definitely have grown some of those spaces and found myself in those spaces over the last few years. Most recently, I was a, a teacher at, university, a couple of different universities being in a space where people are actively learning and seeking knowledge and they're sort of absorbing all of this really interesting stuff around them and then also looking outward to see what kinds of things they will take into the world. I don't know that vulnerable space is something I like to be a part of, either as a teacher or as a support system or, you know, as a commiserator sometimes [Chris Angel laughs]. I don't know, academia, you know, a college campus. Even just a space where people are actively trying to learn something together.

I feel those spaces have lended themselves to being more open-minded and maybe a little more accepting and less judgmental than a lot of other spaces can be. So I usually look to the classroom. Sometimes I look to, you know, like a quilting guild, which I've just recently been invited to speak with and do a project with. There's a couple of them locally here. Those groups of people are all actively working towards some kind of goal of like, enlightenment, you know, maybe on a smaller scale of, "Let's all learn this new quilting technique together." But ultimately that like, kind of bonds people together, and then it makes those spaces where people are welcome and they sort of start to fit in or make their own space within it.

It makes those pop up all around you. And then the other spaces I like to go are gay spaces. Spaces where, you know, whether you , [Mister Larrie laughs] consider yourself a person who goes out to bars and clubs and things, or not. A lot of times those spaces are not what they seem on the surface. And so it's important to go find what you want out of them because they can be just as enlightening and fun and then you can learn from them just as much as you can a classroom.

They're not always great, and sometimes that means you have to do a lot of work trying to find the right fit. Which is why other people and having them involved is so important. It's really not great to go at it alone all the time. Those have been my, my spaces over the last few years where I just kind of feel like I can go here, I can make a mistake, I can ask a question, I can exhale and be myself a little bit, and it's not gonna cause any offense to anybody.

[00:07:58] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah. Being in community with people who have a learner mindset and are open to new information and you can talk about crunchy topics and maybe that's why I love doing this podcast.

[00:08:08] Mister Larrie: Yeah.

[00:08:08] Chris Angel Murphy: You know, is just cuz we can get into these things and we can learn from each other. Yeah. I, I definitely miss that space. It's got its crunchiness too, cuz like academia has, its its own quirks and politics and red tape and all that. And when you're talking about like the front lines and I just think about yeah. All the different opportunities, the different events and everything. Like there's just, I think there's a lot of good there or there can be a lot of good there.

[00:08:33] Mister Larrie: Definitely. I, in the classroom for instance, when you're in a space where people are learning and putting themselves in vulnerable position, that means things are gonna happen. There's gonna be mistakes, there's gonna be awkward times, there's gonna be wrong answers. And if you are in a position to support that environment, whether you're the leader of that group or the teacher at the front of the classroom, whatever, I think you have a duty to try and make sure that everyone knows that's okay and that's expected. And that's, it's an important part of any process is, you know, the mistake or the, the faux pas [laughs] .

[00:09:07] Chris Angel Murphy: But a lot of that comes back to allyship as well, you know. And there's this sense of, "Am I allowed to make a mistake? Like, what if this doesn't come naturally to me?" You know, "What if harm is done?" And yeah, allyship is messy. We're not always gonna do the right thing. Sometimes we're gonna put our foot in our mouths, or we'll just, yeah, make hopefully silly mistakes that, you know, we can bounce back from, but not let it keep us from doing the work.

[00:09:33] Mister Larrie: Right. I did a, I did a Black designers conference a couple of years ago. I think myself and something like 40 other designers and industry professionals who are all Black people talking about our industry, we're only 3%. The racial division of graphic designers in the industry is 3% Black and then everyone else. Which just raises a lot of questions and, and, makes you think about a lot of different things. During this big in-depth conversation we're having about supporting one another and academia and the industry.

There's a discussion brought up about disabled people and a couple of the members are, you know, differently-abled people, people who need, you know- and then a person on the panel who is disabled speaks up and says," Hey, It's okay, you can just say, 'disabled.'" And we kind of had this moment where we were all educated on this sliver of intersectionality that we maybe didn't know quite so much about.

And it didn't have to become a big thing, or you know, it wasn't, you know, "Oh, everybody's apologizing-" we just kept going forward. And that moment was small, but it kind of changed the way that I thought about future interactions. And so those things are happening all around us all the time. So if you're in that position where you are maybe the defacto representation for your intersection, I think it's really brave to be able to also do the job of educating people and making the space safe for them to ask questions and make mistakes if that's what needs to happen. And oftentimes that is what needs to happen.

[00:11:06] Chris Angel Murphy: Especially when it is someone who is a member of that community that's correcting you. I always teach people to just thank them and not even say "sorry." Not because there aren't times in which an apology is warranted, but rather when I correct people, I don't want them to then say "sorry," because then I feel like I have to do additional emotional labor of like making them feel better about a mistake and then it further makes me feel like crap.

Anyway, that's part of why I've just been encouraging folks to just say "thank you" instead, because then it's like "Heard, message received." And then you can move on. Like you said, it doesn't have to like derail the conversation at hand or whatever's happening.

[00:11:42] Mister Larrie: And also they're taking the time out of their day, their moment, to give you this information that they don't have to feel obligated to give you. And so I think that thanking them is also a way to appreciate that. That's definitely something that'll stick with me, I think.

[00:11:56] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah. I really appreciate you sharing that moment of talking about that 3% cuz you shared it with me previously, but you know, you did spend 12 years in academia teaching design and art. What do you feel like, would need to change in order to see that percentage increase? Because I imagine there's gotta be a lot more Black people who would love to get into design.

[00:12:20] Mister Larrie: It is a multifaceted barrier to seeing the kinds of representation we might want to see in that industry and many others that are very similar. The arts are not always encouraged in the Black household because there is not a guarantee that that will bring you prosperity or wealth or even, you know, a rent payment.

[00:12:39] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:12:40] Mister Larrie: The goal in many Black communities for centuries has been to get up and get out and, and do better than the generation before you. And unfortunately, a lot of the things that, that someone like me is interested in, those don't always get seen as a serious, endeavor. And then on the other side, you have the lack of representation to start with. So it's a lot easier for Black children to now see themselves as president now that there has been one.

But when you come from a small town, you know, you don't have a computer at home, you don't have a car or a phone at home and you wanna join this industry where things are sort of moving fast all the time and big and you know, shining and all that, it just seems further away when none of the people behind the scenes look like you. And then you have the barrier of expenses. A machine to work on, and the computer programs that we use to produce most of these things in modern times.

You know, all of that sort of stuff is- these are all barriers that I found myself. So I know that they exist for others. One of the things that I tried to do in my, in my space and in my time, was just be that representation. Which meant putting myself out there a lot more than maybe I wanted to. Being more visible than maybe I always wanted to, in terms of program representation at school visits or within the community running programs that are specifically made to target certain demographics, school groups, and things like that.

And just bringing design to them and then being willing to answer questions, all the time, and not take offense to some of the ones that you might get from parents or from, you know- there's a lot to that kind of position that you might not feel comfortable with. It just so happens that I'm a pleaser and I, too, growing up wanted to be in every group I could be in so I could find some place to fit.

And I found that disseminating information works well for me, but I'm also pretty even tempered and pretty patient with most people. So that combination I think just lends itself to sort of, I don't know, being able to hear someone and try to meet them where they are. And so when I'm speaking with students who think that college is not possible, I can tell them my personal story and tell them that it is.

Or when I see someone who is trying to learn a new skill, in art or design or something, and they don't see themselves on the other side of it, I can show them my personal story. They can see that it's possible. Sometimes it does have an unforeseen cost. Sometimes you do start to feel a little lonely when you do that a lot. . When you're always- "Oh, go talk to the Black professor. He can-

[00:15:11] Chris Angel Murphy: Ugh.

[00:15:11] Mister Larrie: "He can usher you all." You know, like, "Or go talk to the gay professor." Because there were lots of times where I was not only the only Black member, but also the only queer member and there were situations where I was the youngest member. So I had that other connection to my students when, you know, my colleagues maybe didn't. I just kind of took it in stride, but it definitely took a toll on my mental health and my, you know, feelings of self worth and stuff. Eventually you start to think the only thing you have to offer people is helping them.

[00:15:42] Chris Angel Murphy: It's a lot more emotional labor because I think teachers already- much like social work, cuz you know, that's a huge chunk of my background- but just, it's romanticized for being overworked and underpaid. "But like, think about all the lives you touch." And it's like, yeah, but if it's not paying the bills, who's gonna touch my life right now and make sure that, like, I still have a roof over my head. [both laugh]

So I, I guess I'm curious, have there been any students that you've mentored that you've, like, kept in touch with over the years?

[00:16:12] Mister Larrie: There have been a few. The hard part of my job, you know, when I was teaching, was letting my students go out into the world. But there have been a handful that I just, you can't help but see their stars shining so bright. I've had some students reach back and very kindly let me know that they were prepared for some of the challenges that they met because of my classes or my guidance or what have you. And that is one of the greatest gifts in the world [laughs] , because, you know, it's- that's a human person. It's not just like an art project that you made and somebody put it on their fridge. It's a person who went out into the world and making their corner of it better.

I'm always proud of them no matter what they're doing. But yeah, I try to let the birds fly [both laugh] . You know, I'm here if they need anything. After my last group of students, when I left my position, I was able to leave teaching because I knew they were gonna be great out there. It kind of felt like my job here is done, my job in this phase is done, you know, and maybe I can teach people in a different way. And that's kind of where "Mister Larrie" came from. I wanted to stop teaching, but I apparently I didn't wanna stop teaching. So [laughs] -

[00:17:17] Chris Angel Murphy: So you run your YouTube channel, you have TikTok, you have Instagram. You remind me a lot of the shows that I loved as a child. So we're both millennials, just to get some perspective there. But you remind me of "Mr. Rogers" or "Reading Rainbow" and those kinds of hosts, and I wonder how much those shows inspire how you show up in your videos or- where do you get your inspiration from?

[00:17:45] Mister Larrie: I will say that I did not watch a lot of those shows before I started "Mister Larrie," mostly because growing up I didn't always have cable. Like, I knew who "Mr. Rogers" was. I, I actually had watched a little bit of "Bob Ross." I never watched "Reading Rainbow" until way later. But I knew that those shows existed and that I loved the idea of them, the calming aspect, the creative aspect and the learning aspect, all sort of combined together.

So once I started "Mister Larrie" I just like, was trying to not do what I'd seen people do on YouTube already. Did more research as I got into it and trying to apply some of the style of "Mr. Rogers" and "Bob Ross" to what I do, because it sort of naturally aligns already, you know, the very encouraging educational, personality-driven kind of thing.

And I just kept asking myself, especially because it was the first year of Covid, you know, what are people my age doing right now? Did we miss out on all of that fun stuff that we had when we were like little kids? Maybe I could be that for us. Because we all had this time on our hands, I thought, "Let's try and literally make it productive time by picking up some of these little distracting things that you've maybe seen around you your whole life. Maybe your grandma did these things, sewing and, and crochet, and perler beads, and all that sort of stuff. They're cheap, accessible. You can find them anywhere."

Lowest common denominator in terms of early pandemic, people at home, not a lot of money, what can we do? Because that's the way that a lot of people who grew up poor, like I did, are constantly. So as a kid that was all I did was make stuff and come up with things and I'd take scraps of paper and, you know, make paper dolls or something. We just- cuz that's what we had. And I know that that is, useful for other people who were suddenly going through a verys situation.

[00:19:37] Chris Angel Murphy: I remember loving crafting as a kid. I did the traditional macaroni frame of a photo, right. And-

[00:19:45] Mister Larrie: RIght.

[00:19:46] Chris Angel Murphy: I think we spray painted it gold or something. I don't know. But now I'm like, what would that look like as like a "Mister Larrie" version?

[00:19:52] Mister Larrie: It'd look amazing! Yeah. Like I just, I wanted to revert us all to the best time of our lives, which for many of us was like elementary school, when they forced us to do arts and crafts and make stuff. And if it was important for us then how is it suddenly not important for us now? I think all workplaces should have a mandatory crafting session once a month [laughs] . Paid crafting session. You know, you don't have to do it, but you have to be. Because I think it would just eventually have an impact on people [laughs] .

[00:20:22] Chris Angel Murphy: I mean, what's fascinating is, so I grew up with my dad and my grandma and they're both no longer here, but they always told me every year, "You're not gonna need crayons this year." All the way through my master's program, I still ended up using crayons for assignments because of what you said. Like, just, there's something about being able to express yourself in that way. And I think I finally hit a point of not needing to feel like it was very good.

[00:20:50] Mister Larrie: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:50] Chris Angel Murphy: I mean, something like the egg carton caterpillar was a lot easier cuz all you had to do was like, cut it in half, the long way and, I don't know, use some piping or something and whatever we put on it- googly eyes, I don't even remember, it was so long ago, [both laugh] I blocked out a lot of that time of my life. But I remember those things like that brought me a lot of joy and like I didn't have to worry about being good at it or not, you know. And it, it wasn't like competitive, which made it feel a lot better. I swear, even in my master's program for social work, we still ended up using like crayons and color pencils, so-

[00:21:23] Mister Larrie: they're always gonna be valid. I think I- my mother, she's very artistic, and growing up she had these portraits hanging in our house that were like, you know, 20 by 30 inches or so on cardboard that she'd done in high school in wax crayon. I mean, they looked like really beautiful oil paintings of, Gary [laughs] , Gary Bri- no, Todd Bridges and Prince and Gary Coleman, because those were the people she liked. [Chris Angel laughs] She did these beautiful portraits of each of them and I just always saw the cardboard of it and the sort of unfinished edge and the way that she sort of thumbtacked it to the wall.

It took me a long time to see the actual artwork, if that makes any sense.

[00:22:01] Chris Angel Murphy: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:01] Mister Larrie: You know, cuz growing up I wanted, I wanted to be opposite of my mother. Even though I'm, I'm so much like her [laughs] , but I wanted different circumstances than she did. I loved school. I wanted to be very intellectual and all that sort of stuff, and she's just not really that, but we both are very artistic. And so I went through this period where I kind of judged her for using crayons on these pieces, even though they were done really well. I said, "Mom, you could do so much better if you let me get you this different media or blah, blah, blah." And that's not what she wanted and that's not what she used. And now as a almost fully grown adult, I can appreciate exactly what she did with that.

My goal is to make sure that other people know that they A.) can do that same thing with whatever they have, but B.) You know, maybe it's not such a barrier for you to have something slightly nicer if you, let me show you all the tips and tricks I know and stuff.

You know, my mother grew up without very much at all and so the art that she made was sort of made with whatever she could find. And oftentimes that just meant, you know, regular school supply type stuff. And then me going to art school and canvases and blah, blah, you know, [Chris Angel laughs] it was a different side of things. But at the end of the day, I'm all about letting people create and produce and, and be expressive in whatever way they might want to be.

And that's why I do so many different things. And I show so many different, like, types of projects because your thing might not be sewing or, you know, making portraits with crayons. But maybe you work well with paper and you wanna do origami or, you wanna do macrame or something like that. That doesn't require this artistic skill that a lot of people think they have to have.

And sometimes we're just having fun. You don't have to make anything at all. You could just play with it [laughs] . You know, I, I did a whole video on slime because [Chris Angel laughs] , it's just, you know, it's not necessarily an art project, but it can be creative and it can give you that same sort of mood relaxation thing [laughs] .

[00:23:54] Chris Angel Murphy: So I grew up in poverty and the only reason why we were able to be in a really nice neighborhood is because my grandma was the manager of these two apartment buildings that mirrored each other and surrounded by a million plus dollar homes and stuff, right. That was just like, so out of the realm of possibility. And we had the food stamps that you had to count out. And because of that, and because my grandma was the manager, you know, I was taught to be very embarrassed by our poverty. And we would go to grocery stores much further away because again, now you can swipe a card, but back then again, you literally had to count out these pieces of paper.

[00:24:27] Mister Larrie: Yeah.

[00:24:28] Chris Angel Murphy: So we were very lucky in our schools to have computers. So even in elementary, we had computers. Then I would get there early cuz I was like Oregon Trail, damnit like this is my life. But [Mister Larrie laughs] the- I'm taking us on a whole journey here- but the paint software on the computer, it was amazing. And I feel like everyone did those, like, I almost wanna say like triangles and stuff are just like, you know, taking the mouse and just shaking it all around and then like-

[00:24:54] Mister Larrie: Yeah.

[00:24:54] Chris Angel Murphy: Wherever there was like the white space, we'd use the fill tool to like put in different colors and stuff. I feel like I'd always see that on everyone's computer. I don't know who started that, you just like delet it or whatever, but like there was just something very cathartic about doing that. And so anyway, that's part of what I would do to start my day before school started. I miss that.

[00:25:14] Mister Larrie: Oh my gosh. It's a beat that like you get to take as a child and then somehow we just forget it or we replace it with something else as we get older. We have ingrained in us as children that, you know, you can just take a crayon and draw what- literally whatever you want on whatever you want on the walls, whatever. And, we teach ourselves out of that, or it's taught out of us, I guess, you know, because-

[00:25:34] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:25:35] Mister Larrie: You have to be civilized humans who go to work and make money and then do these, you know, this list of stuff. And sometimes I just wanna play with Playdough, or sit on the porch with the bubble machine . And, you know, I can pay my bills on my phone while I have the bubble machine going [both laugh] . You know, I just- I, I think at the end of the day, what I'm really trying to encourage people to do is just not lose that part of themselves where they give themselves permission to just like, experiment with something that's a little fun.

You know? And, and like I said earlier, it doesn't always mean making something. Sometimes it just means appreciating something. Which is why I do a lot of videos about just, you know, looking at art or surrounding yourself with it; decorate your house. It doesn't have to be something fancy or nice, but if you put some colors up around you, it just has an impact on you, I think. Even if you don't recognize it right away.

[00:26:25] Chris Angel Murphy: Mm-hmm. One of the other things that I really love about your account is that you get real with us and you talk about mental health. And you talk about how you lean into creativity for your mental health. So you've been honest about times you've been feeling anxious or depressed. You talk about mental health. You encourage others to take care of themselves and their mental health, especially through crafting and creativity.

Something that I've seen is that talking about mental health in the Black community, especially so publicly, is incredibly rare. I feel like it's only something I've been starting to see more recently. Another piece of this for folks maybe not aware of this, like mental health can be experienced and expressed differently for Black folks. And treating mental health in the Black community is tricky because people can be untrusting of professionals, and rightly so, and it's not very likely they'll be able to see someone who reflects their own communities and culture.

So overwhelmingly we have white therapists, for example, usually women who are likely not a safer space to talk about topics like racial stress and trauma without causing harm, even unintentionally. What have you learned about mental health over the course of your lifetime and what have people in your life, including your family, taught you about it?

[00:27:45] Mister Larrie: You've definitely spoken the truth on the issue of mental health, especially in the Black community. I was just at work the other day. I'm- I work at a marketing agency and so we do a lot of work for clinics and such and, and I do social media posts for them. And one of the posts we did was for a, a Minority Mental Health Awareness Month, which I believe was in August.

And my new manager, my new boss asked, "Why don't we have a mental health awareness month for minorities? Why don't we just do one for everyone?" Any- very innocent question, you know, very nice guy and everything. And, and so it was a nice moment for me to be able to say overwhelmingly, in the Black community, mental health is not something that is discussed publicly. It's barely discussed privately. And even when it is, it's not always seen as something that's serious or even actionable. And oftentimes it's seen as, "Oh, you just need to pray." Or there's a religious, you know, aspect that sort of diminishes the importance of it. Not every Black community, but most of them, a lot of them, certainly the one that I grew up in.

Even as an adult who entered therapy a few years ago, I remember telling my mother about it. She still lives back in Louisiana. And she said, "Larrie, you're not crazy." Literally, her words to me when I told her "Mom, I'm seeing a therapist." Because the stigma is still that way. Where she's from and her generation, they see a need for going to a therapist as something that you get court appointed to [laughs] or, you know, it's- or, or there's a serious, you know," Oh, you're, you're, mm." You know, they, they use a lot of different words, for what they think that means and unfortunately, none of them are really exactly the truth.

So I couldn't have that conversation with my mother because her understanding of the way someone might want to improve their mental health just isn't in the same spot. And so it's, it's hard to have that conversation with a lot of people from her generation, with her situation. It's been a hard journey, especially when you come from a formerly religious upbringing where your mental health is again, even lower prioritized, because it doesn't matter. "You've got God, you can pray, you can, you know, partake in your religion, sing the song and everything will be fine." And when you're not living that life, when things aren't going that way for you, no matter how much you're praying and reading your Bible and stuff, you still hate yourself. That's when you know that there's more happening. And so it took me a long time to figure out how to deal with that and live with that.

And for too long it was without the help of a professional, you know, it was mostly just internal agony all the time. Except for when I was able to express myself creatively or when I was given the space. To be artistic and creative without the barrier of costs or- going to college for me was, was a big undertaking. I'm still largely in debt from it, but if I hadn't, I don't know that I would've been able to have any kind of progress with my relationship with my mental health. Because it often gave me the space to just go and, and create something, meet a goal for class, whatever, where I could work through what's happening in my head while I'm working something with my hands.

And so that's kind of been my go-to for the last 20 years, I'd say is I- I'll, I'll try to channel that energy, my anxiety, my depression into something physical, painting, a sewing project, what have you. And along the way I've learned to talk to myself differently. I've always been like, I don't know what [laughs] , I'm just very self-aware, to a point where it's really annoying sometimes.

And so often a lot of the internal stress and monologue, dialogue, that I'm having, they seem so loud sometimes. It's interesting because it's, nobody else can hear that. No one else knows what's happening. No one knows the crazy thought that I had two hours ago, that I've had to fight my way through to get to be okay now. But oftentimes putting my focus outwardly helps with that. And that oftentimes means being creative, making content for other people so that I can focus on myself less.

And in finding those methods and tactics, and then also doing a lot of reading- I read a book called "Codependent No More," that changed my whole life. Small book, not a big, huge in-depth read. In fact, I think it's really intended for alcoholics and people who care for them. But what it taught me about codependency and how to I process my own emotions, had a huge impact on the way that I talk to myself, think about myself, and prioritize my mental health. It didn't do all the work, but it definitely like just that, "Oh, you're not alone, and all your crazy thoughts and all the things that you feel that you think you're the only person who feels you're actually not." I don't know, it's just enough to get you to keep going sometimes to the next goal.

I wish I could give my mother some of what I know now. I think that she deals with some issues that are more serious than just being impoverished and, and having not the greatest education and, and the most amount of attention on her as a child. And unfortunately, I don't think those things will ever change in her lifetime. Which is why it's so much more important for me to try and disseminate that to whomever's listening, because a bad moment can become permanent before you know it, and then there's just nothing more that we can do. So I just try to be a tiny little light shining on the internet for whoever [laughs] might need it in the darkness, which is a super corny way to put it, but that's what's the good deal. [laughs]

[00:32:58] Chris Angel Murphy: No, I appreciate you sharing all of that because, yeah, I would like to think that you're absolutely hitting the mark on that. At least that's like how I experience your content online. And I'm gonna try not to just fan girl the whole time [both laugh] over you during the episode. But yes, like that's, that's what I get from your work. And I, I guess thinking about like crafting and art and all of that, is there a piece that you've received- it was just super touching and meaningful?

[00:33:28] Mister Larrie: Yeah, I think the first thing I ever got from a viewer, follower, whatever you wanna call them, was this little crochet doll of myself. I did this little drag race spoof on my channel and made this little funny video and this woman who happens to be Black and Scottish, which was like,- you know, for- [laughs] I just love that, first of all.

[00:33:51] Chris Angel Murphy: Yes.

[00:33:51] Mister Larrie: You know, growing up international visits were not something that I ever [both laugh] . . . You know, so just like knowing that there are people around the world who connect to my content, but also that there are other Black people around the world. So she made this little doll of me and I just- and then she sent it to me and it blew me away because I didn't think anybody would ever do something like that.

I don't know, it's so affirming. People are paying attention, not only just paying attention, but also like actually connecting with you and, and supporting you and wanting to know more and learn more and stuff. And it's, it's been great. I've had, I've had several connections happen like that because of the "Mister larrie" stuff; they feel real. After the couple of years we've had, there haven't been a lot of connections happening.

[00:34:34] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah

[00:34:34] Mister Larrie: At least not physical ones. So then it's nice when, when these happen. But yeah, that one definitely has a special place in the heart, that little doll.

[00:34:43] Chris Angel Murphy: I was tearing up, just looking at it. I would've cried a minimum of five minutes, like just ugly crying, five minutes, and then probably cried about it again later [Mister Larrie laughs]. Like, Oh my God, it's just so touching. So that's, that's so sweet.

[00:34:54] Mister Larrie: I do have one other thing.

[00:34:56] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:34:56] Mister Larrie: This wasn't something that, that they made. There's a boombox behind me and it's got this "Jim and the Holograms" tape in it from 1984 or 5 or so. "Jim and The Holograms" is probably my favorite cartoon of all time. It's terrible [both laugh] . The animation's atrocious, but I love the music. I love, I love the whole thing. And so they had these little cassette tapes that they produced throughout the run of the show with the toy line or whatever.

Friend of mine in Arkansas sent me the tape, and so I'd made a video of it. It turned out to be a song- a version of my favorite song by them, that I had never heard before. It was just a big, I think I literally cried. I was just, I'm one of those-, when we talk about love languages [both laugh] I love little gifts. People were like thinking about me at all. That will get me crying on the floor in a second. So anything like that has just been really wonderful because like I didn't grow up with a lot of that kind of stuff happening in my household, so it means a lot.

[00:35:52] Chris Angel Murphy: Ooh, okay. Trying to figure out where to go from there. There's a video of you talking about getting a cut on your foot and I was like, "Where is this going, Mister Larrie?" And you experienced Black joy because bandaids now have various skin tones available and you were just sort of marveling at this. Like, I don't know that you thought you'd ever maybe see something like that in your lifetime. So I'm curious, when was the last time you experienced Black joy and what inspired it?

[00:36:26] Mister Larrie: Wow. That was a very interesting moment. I knew they were out there, you know, maybe a year before that. But before that, I never expected to see that sort of thing.

[00:36:35] Chris Angel Murphy: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:36] Mister Larrie: So yeah, that was, that was really incredible. I've [laughs] , I've been talking about this show "P-Valley" to everybody who was [Chris Angel laughs] "P-Valley" is a star show. It's about a whole dancing, strip club run by a femme-presenting person with hair and makeup and stuff. It's all Black people, in the Dirty South and it's very much just reminding me of like parts of home and just the time I grew up and stuff. It's not a show that I think 10 years ago I would've been interested in and some friends got me into it.

Just seeing Black people represented in all these different facets; gender expression, sex workers, and dancers and strippers and people who are at various different degrees of that, being free and athletic and beautiful and courageous and all these sorts of things. I mean, the show's a little, the show's over the top. It's crazy. I can't help but smile when I see it because it's just this celebration of things that, for me growing up were all considered ghetto or less than classy or, you know, that's not the right way you need to blah blah.

Growing up with my mother who is from a different generation and thus wants, you know- she, she definitely wanted me to be as white-acting as possible growing up. All that sort of stuff. You know, she had goals based on her upbringing that were different from the world that I grew up in. So it took me a long time to really appreciate, like Black American Southern culture that way; especially cuz I wasn't part of it. We have our own issues with accepting the LGBTQIA community in the Black community, but also especially in the South.

So this show is sort of just like the antithesis of all of that. And they definitely showcase how those things are present in their reality as well. They, they're doing a whole thing about Covid right now. But it also feels very realistic because I know people like them who say the things that they say and do the things that they do, and that has been a huge source of Black joy for me.

Just be able to just like, like, yeah, some people live different than you and that's okay. You know, my version of Black is my own and someone else has their own version, just like my version of Gay is my own. And over the years I've learned to better appreciate even those spaces that I didn't feel like were accepting of me because I can't judge the entire space based on some experiences.

You know, there's always gonna be those pockets of people who do more than they are expected to. And and I think that's where we find those communities that we mentioned earlier, that where people do feel like they belong. "P-Valley" is a show that shows a space where a lot of people belong, and it's just kind of unexpected [Chris Angel laughs] . And that, that's not a, that's not a television recommendation, but if you do want to see Black people being Black people and you're not ashamed of seeing a, a breast here and there [Mister Larrie laughs] . There you go [Chris Angel laughs]. They show a lot more than that though, to be honest.

[00:39:33] Chris Angel Murphy: Representation. Even just going back to the 90s, I remember watching shows like black comedies, like "Family Matters" and I just feel like it's changed.

[00:39:41] Mister Larrie: Yeah.

[00:39:42] Chris Angel Murphy: So much over the years. Like, I mean, gosh, "Blackish" has like all of those spinoff shows. I can't even keep track anymore.

[00:39:48] Mister Larrie: I kind of wish they would stop at this point [both laugh]. Yes. When that show came on, I thought, that's kind of me except straight, you know, Black graphic designer, little chubby, trying to like live in this other space that maybe wasn't intended for him. Yeah, it was very interesting at first. I, I think, I think they definitely found their audience and I'm glad that people are still watching. I just moved on to to more raunchy stuff [both laugh] .

[00:40:13] Chris Angel Murphy: We're allowed to- get it. You've also shared with me that you're part of the bear community, and for those not familiar, it is a whole culture with terms and norms like "woofing" at someone you find attractive. And I will not attempt to do that right now [Mister Larrie laughs] , but-

[00:40:31] Mister Larrie: Oh man.

[00:40:32] Chris Angel Murphy: Yep. We're going there. So- but before we dive in, how would you describe the bear community to others who are not familiar with it?

[00:40:41] Mister Larrie: The bear community is intended for bigger, gay, men, largely. I mean, I'm sure that there are spaces where other people are part of it, but initially it was gay men who were chubby, plus-size, fat, hairy, bear-like if you will. A lot of times the presentation of this subculture is that it's very sort of masculine and straight-leaning and like, you know, that whole appearance of American, masculine energy and that sort of thing tends to pop out a lot. A lot of the guys in the bear community are like, "We want men, blah, blah, blah." and they want what that means traditionally for our culture, which unfortunately excludes a lot of people.

[00:41:21] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:41:21] Mister Larrie: In fact, I don't think that most of the bear community is that [laughs] , but it is this thing that we are sort of attracted to some type, for whatever reason, and so some people do spend a lot of time trying to be that. And, and I think that's perfectly fine if that's what you wanna do with your time and energy. I have found that, as I've gotten older and have come to know people who are a part of the community, that it's actually more about this space where a lot of people who felt like they weren't part of mainstream gay, male culture in particular, sort of wanted to make something new, that focused on this other side of things.

You know, if, if skinny and buff and thin and, and hairless is "the norm," quote unquote, then maybe we can have this other section of things. Unfortunately, just like every other community, it has its own problems. And if it's founded on these sort of Western ideals of beauty standards, even though they might not be the original set, they still do often exclude a lot of people. And that's unfortunate, because it's intended to be a space that is more inclusive.

I have had the pleasure of being a part of a few different smaller groups and stuff. I've got lots of, you know, friend groups who consider themselves bears, but I'm just now getting to a point where I'm looking at the community on a larger scale. And that's only because I've actually been in the physically larger community a few times this year, which is kind of new. Going to events and stuff like that and just trying to like get to know some of these people. They do often look from the outside, very similar, very white-centric. There's a whole set of standards that guys will still follow into, even though they're different.

I don't think that that's a problem necessarily, or that's like a bad thing. If 10 guys all have the same bear tattoo, I don't care [Chris Angel laughs] like maybe they all like the bear tattoo. But when it comes to trying to be things that you just aren't, like whiter or maybe you're trying to change your physical shape to meet someone's eye, I think those are the times where we really have to start looking at what our goal is here. And if we're missing something like with any other community, you have to find the people within it that you want to connect to and the people that jive with you.

But there are terrible examples of the bear community out there as well. I don't know. I, I think that in 2022 we're seeing more people talk about this and thus we're seeing more diverse representation. At the very least, people know that that's a thing that people are looking for, whether they actually have it or not, I think time will have to be a factor in that, you know. Because every bear event from here to 2025 is gonna have a picture with a diverse group of bears as the header. But when you go to the event, does it actually look like that? We don't- maybe it will by then, but but unfortunately it's been a slow progress and I think that as long as people keep talking about it, we'll keep moving it forward. But that's definitely been the last two or three years, something that I've really taking notice of and, tried to- I don't know, affect if I can.

[00:44:16] Chris Angel Murphy: My own personal experience, I love bears. [laughs] Like I don't, I'm just so attracted to bears.

[00:44:22] Mister Larrie: That's the problem. I bears are problematic as everybody else, but they're wonderful, they're, they're just.

[00:44:30] Chris Angel Murphy: I mean, I've been asked before if like, I'm a bear and I don't know. I think at best I could be a non-binary otter, cuz I'm definitely hairy, like starting testosterone, you know, back in August of 2008, like I sprouted like a freaking chia pet. I had no idea. And like at first, like you said, the queer community, the trans communities, et cetera, like they're not exempt from things like racism and certain Western beauty standards, like you were mentioning, and so a lot of my friends were worried, like that I won't be attractive anymore if I just keep sprouting all this hair and stuff. And it's like," Wait, you want me to just be this hairless being?"

[00:45:13] Mister Larrie: Little did they know-

[00:45:15] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, and so yeah, I've found [laughs] myself- you know, when I think about dating or even just hooking up when I was on Grindr versus Scruff, there was a huge difference. Because of Grindr, I felt judged all the time and I felt like I was never good enough for people.

[00:45:33] Mister Larrie: Yeah.

[00:45:33] Chris Angel Murphy: And on Scruff I felt a lot more comfortable. And even though it wasn't always perfect; as a trans person and a non-binary person trying to date men who are maybe either gay or bi or queer or somewhere along there, like there were definitely interactions that could have gone a lot better, et cetera.

However, like overall, I do appreciate the bear community, but like you said, there's been things I've heard of cuz I'm not as immersed into the culture or the community, where it's like, you know, I just recently heard from someone else that like, "muscle bear" is the ideal in the community and that's like part of the hierarchy. And I'm like, "What? That's so disappointing." Like that completely like burst my, my bubble, if you will, because I thought that the bear community would be a little bit better than that. And like you said, it, I, I can't like sit here generalizing and maybe there's spaces that are safer than others, but yeah, like, as a [laughs] - can I be a non-binary otter? I know I've seen at least one other one on the internet somewhere recently, as I was like doing research. But yeah.

[00:46:35] Mister Larrie: I think that that's part of the issue is like when, when I was first becoming a part of the bear community and sort of recognizing that that's where I'd find everything I was looking for, there would be guys who like, "Oh, I'm a bear." And then you know, someone in their comments saying, "No, you're not, you're just fat." Or, "You're not hairy enough to be a bear." Or, "You're too big to be a bear." Or, "You're not big enough to like-"

[00:46:53] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:46:53] Mister Larrie: What I thought we were just-

[00:46:54] Chris Angel Murphy: The policing! The body policing.

[00:46:57] Mister Larrie: I have found that muscle bears seem to be the ones that everyone is- you know, they go after them. They, they, they're the leaders of the pack. They're the cool kids at the pool party. And I think it's just because they represent a physical ideal that oftentimes chubbier guys don't see in their future. And so because you know you can't reach it or you, you believe you can't reach it, then it becomes this new, beautiful thing.

I remember being in high school, being very, very gay and trying to be very closeted about it, and sort of falling in love with this tall, blonde, skinny, hairless guy, because I knew he was, you know, I knew he was gay from appearances or whatever. I was not attracted to this person at all. They ended up becoming my best friend. We went to college together. Not an ounce of attractiveness to this person, but at that time I thought they represent the ideal in the gay community, so that's probably what I should be. And so it was a, it was a lot. So even in the bear community, there are guys who don't feel bear enough or, you know. Even I don't often feel bear enough because I'm not white enough, my beard's not long enough. You know, all these other things. And when you put it all into words like that, it sounds really ridiculous that each of us, oftentimes are feeling the same sorts of thing.

So I went to Tidal Wave earlier this summer, which is a big bear party, a big pool party in Orlando. Lots of people that I've known from the internet were there, friends, but then mostly just strangers. And I didn't really know a whole lot of people. And the whole time you're just like, "Oh, I'm so insecure cause I'm not as buff as that guy." Or, "But like, this isn't the place for buff guys, this is the place for fat guys. Why do I feel bad here?" That's often the case [laughs] .

[00:48:33] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah. Or, or like, even- cuz again, there's a lot of like terminology here- but like to think of like a twink being with a bear. Some people would like frown upon that, "Like, why would you do that? Bears should be with bears." Or I, I don't know. So like, goodness [Mister Larrie laughs] . Even when I, even when I was in the lesbian community, I dealt with this bullshit.

[00:48:52] Mister Larrie: Oh.

[00:48:53] Chris Angel Murphy: When I was butch and I was with like another butch, they'd- people would be like, "Okay, but who's the real butch?"

[00:49:00] Mister Larrie: Right.

[00:49:00] Chris Angel Murphy: What the fuck, we're both butch. Get outta here with that bullshit. Like, what do you mean, like, "who's the like, bigger butch?" What? I don't [laughs] you gotta laugh as long as you don't wanna cry (Mister Larry laughs) . Well, I, I feel like that's like something that always upset me, is that I'm not necessarily striving for masculinity, although I am masculine leaning.

[00:49:22] Mister Larrie: Right.

[00:49:22] Chris Angel Murphy: I don't know that I necessarily adopt like trans-masculine as part of my identity, although it's definitely been put on me. People just interpreted me more of like a, a soft butch, you know? Like it couldn't even just be butch. I had to be a soft butch. And like, for some reason it just always really bothered me. And I feel like it's just because so many people from within the community itself have been so quick to try to label me and tell me who I am and get it wrong.

[00:49:51] Mister Larrie: Yeah.

[00:49:52] Chris Angel Murphy: And like who cares if I'm a soft- but like they said it in a way, like I was lesser of a person because of it, or not a true butch or something. Like what? Why do we need like these scales and stuff? So-

[00:50:02] Mister Larrie: There's all this like, you know, just as a gay man, we have all of that situation with being a top versus being the bottom.

[00:50:08] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:50:08] Mister Larrie: Versus all this stuff and all of the assumptions that come along with it about your personality or what your goals in life or what you're willing to do and not to; and in the bear community, it's exactly the same. It can be exhausting sometimes for guys who are really trying to, like, be a part of the community. Because for so many of them, they've gone for so long without that, they finally found the one that's gonna accept them and then they still won't. It can become a very sad landscape sometimes for people who are just like, you know- I'm fine being labeled a bear. I'm fine being labeled a man. My labels are fine, but at the end of the day, I don't need any of them. You know, I'm just me. I'm just, I'm just being Larrie, That's just the way it is [Chris Angel laughs] .

[00:50:50] Chris Angel Murphy: In conclusion on this Super Soul Sunday with Oprah and Mister Larrie.

[00:50:55] Mister Larrie: Right?

[00:50:56] Chris Angel Murphy: Is there anything in particular specific to the Bear community that you hope you'll see change in the near future?

[00:51:06] Mister Larrie: I think I'll go with this. I, I wish everybody would stop working out. I love physical fitness. I actually do enjoy working out and lifting weights every now and then and stuff, but I feel like so many times these guys see that as a ticket into the community or something. You know, as soon as they go on a date with the guy, they gotta start working out so they can too, become a "muscle bear" or whatever, or be trained by someone or whatever.

Do whatever you want with your body. If you want to change it, do that. But it shouldn't be because of some person and a it damn shouldn't be because of a group of guys. I see that so many times. Guys are describing their day, "Oh, I gotta go work out." And it's like, if you hate this, why are you doing it? I don't know. I just, I hope that more people see that that's not, that's not something that they have to do. I mean, that and other physical changes, you know, I just- just be yourself because there's so many people out there that you've never even met who are just waiting to accept you the way you are. And you have to give them the chance to do that, without, you know, going all Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson on them.

[00:52:11] Chris Angel Murphy: Yes. Well, and I don't know, I will say like something that I really have the bear community to thank, and- and a previous partner, is just learning to embrace my hair. And I will say as I get older, that gets a little tricky. Because, you know, with testosterone and everything, there were certain changes I was expecting.

[00:52:31] Mister Larrie: Right.

[00:52:32] Chris Angel Murphy: But like, I don't think I understood how much my body would continue to change as I age. So now I'm getting hair in places I haven't had before, and I was like, really? Like, but wait, round two. And so like, I'll have these like stray hairs coming outta my shoulders. I have back hair now. I have these like really interesting patches of hair, like on the back of my arms and I'm like-

[00:52:54] Mister Larrie: Oh my God.

[00:52:54] Chris Angel Murphy: Oh, this is still happening. Like they're going up the sides of my body, like my hips and everything.

[00:52:59] Mister Larrie: This sounds wonderful, I have to say.

[00:53:00] Chris Angel Murphy: Well [both laugh] , that's not how I felt about it when I started seeing it in the mirror, but I'm like, "Wait, I need to like, channel the bear bears. And like, no, just like, yeah, embrace this." But yeah, it's, it's interesting that bodies are also just weird.

[00:53:15] Mister Larrie: They are so weird and, and that just makes me remind- it remembers that- [Chris Angel laughs] that makes me remember that I, I too am dealing with very similar situation.

[00:53:24] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:53:24] Mister Larrie: I'm like starting to see- like, I, I've been kind of hairy my whole life, but now it's like more, and now it's all white. It's like turning white, slowly.

[00:53:31] Chris Angel Murphy: Okay, but you're rocking it.

[00:53:33] Mister Larrie: Well, I, I hated it at first, but, but now I'm realizing this is just my next phase and I just have to accept it and embrace it and- cuz like it's getting better. Like, at first I was like, "Oh no!" But then I was like, "No, If you, if you, if you keep holding yourself back, you won't reach your final blow up." you just have to let it happen. And, and so that's what I'm telling to you. You just have to let it happen.

[00:53:57] Chris Angel Murphy: I-

[00:53:57] Mister Larrie: You become the gorilla that you were meant to be [both laugh] .

[00:54:01] Chris Angel Murphy: In, in my head, you're gonna create one of those like "live laugh, love" paintings for me or something that like people have like around their house, but instead it's gonna be like, "You're aging like a fine wine" or something, but have like, like that Mister Larrie spin on it just to be like, "It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. You're, you're just becoming the gorilla. You've always known you were meant to be." [both laugh] Like, I don't know.

But, but it is, it's hard though cuz it's just, again, mentally I was like, my body is done changing, but like, obviously that's not true. But again, I just- the hair and where it's showing up. Or like even the white hairs, when I had my first white pube, I was like," Excuse me?" [laughs] . Like, I just like, I'm like- I'm really looking forward to like- [Mister Larrie laughs] I know I'm gonna be a silver fox. Like I just know it. I like- it's, it's coming in.

[00:54:47] Mister Larrie: Well that's kinda what gave me some confidence.

[00:54:48] Chris Angel Murphy: Okay.

[00:54:48] Mister Larrie: I was like, this is headed in a good direction. You'll be okay.

[00:54:51] Chris Angel Murphy: But the pubes, for some reason I was like, that's where I draw the line [both laugh] . I dunno. Like just- TMI. I'm probably gonna leave this in. Here we are. No, cause this is real. This is real.

[00:55:00] Mister Larrie: I don't think I have any yet. Which, which is kind of surprising.

[00:55:03] Chris Angel Murphy: Yeah.

[00:55:03] Mister Larrie: It's everywhere else [both laugh] . Even my ear hair, like- which is like disgusting, cause I have ear hair now.

[00:55:10] Chris Angel Murphy: See like that's where it's coming out too. And I'm like, "Nope, nope, nope." Like why? Why I already have problems with hearing and is that gonna like muffle the sound more? Like I don't-

[00:55:20] Mister Larrie: It just might.

[00:55:21] Chris Angel Murphy: Or the nose hair. The nose hair is getting so much longer and I'm like, I didn't need that.

[00:55:25] Mister Larrie: Yeah. I, my wish- I grew up without my dad, but now we're kind of like friends or whatever.

[00:55:30] Chris Angel Murphy: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:31] Mister Larrie: As adults. But I, the other day I was like, "I wish you'd warned me about all this hair popping up everywhere." [Chris Angel laughs] He's like, "Hey, I don't have any of that! That's from your mother's side." [both laugh]

[00:55:39] Chris Angel Murphy: "You didn't get that from me." Oh gosh.

[00:55:42] Mister Larrie: So there we go.

[00:55:43] Chris Angel Murphy: Genetics are fun.

[00:55:44] Mister Larrie: Right.

[00:55:45] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, we've gone on a very wild journey today, but now I would like to ask you: what's one allyship tip you'd like for everyone listening to consider?

[00:55:56] Mister Larrie: I tend to insist on adding grace in any situation that I can. No community experience is a monolith. Which means you have to abandon your assumptions about queer people and queer Black and brown people because each of their experiences; it warrants your attention. And they might be bridged by commonalities, but there's something different that you can learn from each one and they each deserve your respect. So if you can respect the path that each of us has, and then learn to be graceful with that. Whether that's- don't ask 20 questions about something just because you don't understand it. Sometimes that person is just trying to have a day. The situation where you maybe know something or see something or suspect something that's none of your business is maybe the time for you to continue to be quiet.

And this comes from knowing a lot of people who are very sweet-spirited people who are trying to be helpful and trying to be supportive. And they go on these tangents asking questions, and then another question, and then a follow-up question. And they get to a space where they're asking you things that are really personal or they are speaking very loudly so that other people who aren't part of the conversation can hear you and maybe you're not comfortable giving that information that- you know, things like that.

I think that it's just being aware of your surroundings and aware of that person. Add some grace, give people a moment, give them some patience. Just a little bit extra can really mean so much more to them. You don't have to know anything about them to do that.

You don't get to know everything about them, you know? So I think that that's another part of it, is just mind your business, be nice to people, be kind to people cuz it doesn't cost you anything, and they'll let you in when they let you in. When you're dealing with a person who is queer or part of any of these different intersectionalities we've been talking about. Just let people be sometimes, you know? I think that's, that's really the, the point of all of that [laughs] , when you can, let people be.

[00:57:53] Chris Angel Murphy: Well, Mister Larrie and I got pretty personal there and hopefully it didn't scare you off [laughs]. What a lovely, bright human. Mister Larrie, thank you so much for spending time with me and sharing so much of yourself with us. And, thank you for normalizing mental health and self-care by tapping into our creative selves. I hope you'll check out his work and see if any of it inspires you.

And because I desperately need to practice my own self-care by resting, here are the last three self-reflection questions:

4. Do I openly talk about mental health with anyone I'm close to?

5. What have I been taught about mental health in my communities?

6. Where could I give myself some grace?

Visit AllyshipIsAVerb.com for any resources and a full transcript of the episode. And remember, sometimes allyship means giving people some grace.