[00:00:00] Charlie Ocean: Well, hello there. I'm Charlie Ocean, and my pronouns are they/them. Welcome to Allyship is a Verb, a podcast for people practicing allyship, for the LGBTQ+ community, and beyond!

[00:00:26] Molly Rix: My name is Molly Ricks, and my pronouns are she/her.

[00:00:29] Charlie Ocean: Before we dive into the episode, I need to say: Thank you, Rory! (voice echoes) Thank you so much for becoming a new monthly supporter, I appreciate you.

Well, happy Pride Month everybody! I've never gotten to say that to y'all before, because I don't normally drop episodes during Pride Month. So that feels weird, but here we are. So happy Pride Month, however, you decide to celebrate or not.

We don't have a lot of time here, because I want to make sure we can get in as much of the conversation as possible, but Molly is our audio engineer, which is really exciting. And she's become a dear friend of mine. So I'm really grateful that her podcasting debut (laughs) in terms of being a guest is right here on Allyship is a Verb. What I can tell you about Molly, in a nutshell, is that she is smart, creative, and fucking hilarious.

Here are three self-reflection questions for you to think about during the episode, and be sure to stick around after the conversation for three more and more details about a Pride Month giveaway.

1. Do I celebrate Pride Month? If so, is anything different about this time around?

2. If I practice allyship, how am I supporting LGBTQ+ communities this month?

3. Do I buy any pride swag from corporations? Can I swap that with smaller businesses that are LGBTQ+ owned instead?

And now the conversation.

(laughs) You're like, "I regret this so much."

[00:02:24] Molly Rix: I gotta go. (both laugh)

[00:02:28] Charlie Ocean: I just, it's going to happen halfway through the interview. You're just like, "Bye, Charlie."

[00:02:31] Molly Rix: bye.

[00:02:35] Charlie Ocean: You are a trans woman, lesbian, musician, beginner witch, and pagan. (laughs) Just laughing cause I know you and oh god. Okay. What -

[00:02:50] Molly Rix: Yeah. (both laugh)

[00:02:50] Charlie Ocean: Not long. Yeah.

What do those intersections mean to you?

[00:02:57] Molly Rix: I think that they blend into each other pretty significantly, and that I find that my queerness in being trans and a lesbian allows me to feel like I have spaces where I can feel appreciated and welcomed. So like in the pagan community or like the witchcraft community, for example, like they're very accepting of queer folks and I find plenty of space for myself to exist in those areas.

I should have added on, on the identities too, that I'm also a Unitarian Universalist.

[00:03:41] Charlie Ocean: UU!

[00:03:43] Molly Rix: Because I didn't have enough labels in the beginning. (laughs)

[00:03:46] Charlie Ocean: I mean, I've never met a UU I didn't like, (laughs) so.

[00:03:51] Molly Rix: Yeah, so my partner and I, we went to a couple services last October, and we had kind of been throwing around the idea of checking out the UU church. Because they had gone like, 10 years ago, for like one service and then never really came back. So we had an interest in checking out the community and seeing what they're all about, because like we knew that they were very like welcoming especially for queer folks. So yeah we went there and really enjoyed our time and we very quickly decided we were going to become members.

And so yeah, within like, a month and a half or so, we were like, (laughs) officially part of the church, which is really strange for me to say, because I grew up Catholic, and it's a really strange feeling going back into something that's more ritualistic and calls itself, you know, a church.

You know, I have complicated feelings about my Catholic upbringing. I definitely don't subscribe to it anymore, as you probably gathered from the identities at the beginning of this. (both laugh) But it's been interesting seeing how the rituals that I see in like the pagan world aren't all that different from the rituals in like the Catholic world, from what I've seen, so.

[00:05:16] Charlie Ocean: Except probably more inclusive and less guilt.

[00:05:20] Molly Rix: There is that too, yeah. (both laugh) Yeah, no, definitely less guilt and it's like, it's more open to your interpretation, in terms of whatever you want to do.

Like, I'm specifically gravitating towards Norse paganism, right. So like, the whole, like, Norse pantheon of gods like Odin and Thor and Freyja and all that. And so that, that's been more of a recent revelation for myself. And I've been really diving into that and figuring out what that looks like for me and how I can combine that with various, like, witchcraft things and make my own practice out of it.

[00:06:02] Charlie Ocean: Well, there's a lot to dive into in this conversation, (Molly laughs) so we'll just go on this wild journey together. I feel like, and when we were talking about recording this episode in the first place, I I feel that a great deal of your story stems from your birthday weekend in 2020.

[00:06:26] Molly Rix: Oh, yeah.

[00:06:27] Charlie Ocean: Yeah, (laughs) as you smile. That was just such a pivotal moment for a lot of reasons. We'll slowly work our way through. However, 2020, birthday weekend. Could you talk us through what happened that weekend first?

[00:06:46] Molly Rix: Sure. For context, I was previously married and my partner at the time and I went to a cabin up in like Wisconsin, I think it was. And we were there for the weekend for my birthday, right, and it also happened to be election weekend. (Charlie laughs) So there was a lot going on to say the least.

But it was like Saturday, I think, and we were hanging out in the hammocks and I turned to my, my partner at the time and was like, "Do you ever wonder what it would be like to be the other gender?" and she was like, "Nope, I don't do that." and I was like, "Oh, okay. All right. Well -" And so I just kind of like shoved that to the back of my mind and it was like, "Okay, well, whatever."

[00:07:37] Charlie Ocean: Yeah.

[00:07:37] Molly Rix: And then the next morning I woke up at like six or something and was like, "Why do I feel this sudden urge to cross dress? What is happening to me?" (laughs)

[00:07:50] Charlie Ocean: Right.

[00:07:51] Molly Rix: I was doing a lot of Google searches and trying to figure out what that meant, what this means for me. It was a very confusing time and a very interesting drive home the next day. (laughs)

[00:08:06] Charlie Ocean: Yes. Something that's been really interesting for me to see over the course of our friendship so far is navigating identities, especially figuring out where you may lie within the LGBTQ+ communities, if at all. All of that can be a super complex and fluid process. (laughs)

So I just feel like, and I'm not going to share the specifics unless you would like to talk about it. But I just feel like there were quite a few times throughout the course of our friendship so far - and we haven't known each other like super long - but I just feel like I'd get like, a text or something from you, maybe a Slack message, "Charlie, I think I'm, [insert identity here]." And then like low key having an existential crisis about it. And I'm like, "Oh, okay, let's hop on a call. Like, let's talk through this."

(laughs) I'm not to make light of it, but like, I think there's been a lot of panicked moments of - and I definitely don't want to shove words in your mouth at all, but I feel like as your friend, I've had a sense of, "Oh, wow. Like Molly is really struggling to find her place amongst all of this." And like, I didn't, I don't blame you because there's so many nuanced terms and definitions and everything now. In some ways, it almost felt like whack a mole where it's like, you thought you had one thing down and it's like, "But wait, there's this thing." And then, yeah.

So you've, you've gone through quite the process. So I guess like in terms of thinking through the gender stuff from, "I think I'm a crossdresser," to being a trans woman now, or your sexual orientation at the time of your marriage with your previous partner, to where you've landed now, how did you find where all you fit? How did that bumpy process, as your friend, watching, how did that go for you and feel for you?

[00:10:11] Molly Rix: It started with the questioning piece of trying to figure out what wanting to cross dress meant, and that meant exploring different identity labels. And to kind of like, summarize however long it took me, I went pretty quick, I think, in terms of trying to hammer down something concrete, because I don't like living in the gray area.

[00:10:40] Charlie Ocean: No, you don't. (laughs)

[00:10:42] Molly Rix: It's really annoying. I'm working on that in therapy. (Charlie laughs)

[00:10:48] Charlie Ocean: I like how you said that.

Just before I lose this thought because you know how I am, I can only commend you for going on that journey because I'm sure at several points it's been scary, and confusing, and again, I feel like you'd have one part down and then you'd be like, "But wait, there's this thing now." And then, "What's this feeling coming up for me?"

And so lots of exploring and I just want to say I'm really proud of you for navigating all of that.

[00:11:16] Molly Rix: Well, thank you.

[00:11:17] Charlie Ocean: You're welcome.

[00:11:18] Molly Rix: Yeah, I mean, I started out with thinking I was maybe bigender, and then trans-feminine, and then I finally landed on trans woman. What I found was that it was a slow release of my masculinity, over time, to a speed that I could be comfortable with it.

And I think that really helped me to kind of like pace things out a little bit and not like completely lose track of myself in the process. And then as far as the sexuality piece goes, I have always been attracted to women. And so, That didn't really change for me with the gender, the gender swap. (both laugh)

But yeah, I was struggling with the label of lesbian. I was like, "Can I claim that? I don't know." And eventually I realized it was okay. I was like, "You know what, I'm a trans woman. I'm attracted to other women. I'm going to claim the label because I don't really care."

But yeah, I mean, I've had moments where I've, I'm like, "Oh, am I graysexual? Am I somewhere on the ace spectrum?" And then realized I wasn't. And then I've had moments more recently where I've been like, do I also find men attractive? I don't know.

I've come to terms with that where I'm like, "No, I'm strictly just a lesbian." I have moments of questioning, but not really too often. I always kind of come back to the like, "No, you're a lesbian."

Let me tell you, there's something magical about lumberjacks. (laughs)

[00:12:54] Charlie Ocean: Yeah.

[00:12:55] Molly Rix: I don't know what it is. And the funny thing is, is that pre-transition, that's what I looked like. (Charlie laughs) So I can't quite like figure out the connection with that, but lumberjacks are cool, right?

[00:13:11] Charlie Ocean: Yeah, sure. (Molly laughs) Absolutely. I know it's not for everyone, but like, I'm with you.

[00:13:17] Molly Rix: Yeah.

[00:13:18] Charlie Ocean: It's been interesting to watch you allow yourself explore and have that fluidity, be it for your gender, your sexual orientation, and just be where you're at now. And I feel like You're also a lot more comfortable in yourself. I feel like should anything else come up, I feel like you're a lot more comfortable in yourself, in your skin, in your identities that you would allow yourself any further exploration if it, if it came up.

[00:13:48] Molly Rix: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really important to allow yourself that room to experiment and try things out. I mean, I was terrified when I was coming to terms with my gender. I was, I was scared to walk in front of like my front window of my house in like a dress, you know, so like I couldn't go down the stairs. I have vivid memories of that.

And then, now I couldn't care less. I'll go to the grocery store and I'll just be like, you know, I'm two years on HRT now.

[00:14:22] Charlie Ocean: (begin explainer audio track) HRT means "hormone replacement therapy." It's important to note that not all trans and nonbinary people explore that as a medical option. Some may not explore any medical options. It's a personal decision, and sometimes people can be on it for a short time, and sometimes people can be on it for life. (end explainer audio track)

[00:14:40] Molly Rix: And suffice it to say, it has worked. And - (Charlie laughs)

[00:14:46] Charlie Ocean: Uh-huh. Yes, I don't know, I'm just laughing. There's like, I don't know, a comic strip happening in my head, but yes.

[00:14:57] Molly Rix: But yeah, it doesn't really phase me anymore when I go out.

But like, I distinctly remember having that moment where I went to the grocery store in feminine clothing for the first time. And of course I had forgotten to shave that day. Which made it super stressful. Yeah, I was really nervous and I was just like standing in the cereal aisle and I was like, "Oh, I just want cereal, but _gender._"

[00:15:25] Charlie Ocean: Yeah, no lumberjack cereal for you. Sorry.

[00:15:28] Molly Rix: (with disappointment) Oh. I can still get the Brawny paper towels or Scotts or whatever (Charlie laughs) brand it is. Yeah.

[00:15:33] Charlie Ocean: I don't know. Is that safe in your home? I feel like you might get stuck and just drool and then your current partner will find you and be like, "Are you okay?"

[00:15:42] Molly Rix: Dream man, obviously.

[00:15:44] Charlie Ocean: (laughs) You'd be like, "No, leave me alone, we're having a moment, it's private."

[00:15:47] Molly Rix: Yeah, exactly.

[00:15:49] Charlie Ocean: You know, if you're comfortable diving into this, you flew out to visit me here in Denver, which was a wild ride for a million reasons. However, I do distinctly remember once we figured out how to find each other at the airport, (laughs) which is not easy.

[00:16:07] Molly Rix: Oh yeah.

[00:16:08] Charlie Ocean: That airport - and it, it changes all the time because like, I don't know, certain parts will be closed cause it's just undergoing massive construction that I think will honestly just happen forever at this point.

But you weren't wearing the clothing that I think would best affirm your gender at that point,

[00:16:28] Molly Rix: Right.

[00:16:28] Charlie Ocean: "Boy mode" - is that what you called it?

[00:16:30] Molly Rix: Boy mode. Yeah. Boy moding.

[00:16:33] Charlie Ocean: Yeah. (laughs)

[00:16:34] Molly Rix: Yeah. I don't really do that anymore. At the time, you know, when I was flying, I was, well, I didn't have my documents updated at that point. I was scared shitless of going to the airport with a male marker on my ID. And like, if I'm there wearing, like a dress, for example, you know, that's peak uncomfortable for me. And the last thing I want is to deal with the TSA.

So I just kept it nice and simple. And you know, the interesting thing actually is, I was probably wearing like a t-shirt and jeans or something at the time and that's honestly what I wear now.

[00:17:17] Charlie Ocean: You're literally wearing it right now.

[00:17:19] Molly Rix: Yeah, I am at a point where I am comfortable really just wearing whatever, but I find that, yeah, generally just a t-shirt and jeans feels affirming enough to me and I don't necessarily need to do like a full on dress or a skirt every day like I needed to the first, like, year or two of my transition.

[00:17:43] Charlie Ocean: We're friends and you're also the audio engineer of the podcast.

[00:17:47] Molly Rix: Yes.

[00:17:48] Charlie Ocean: So it's like, wild to have you on here. (laughs) I feel like I'm putting on the spot, but is there anything like, I don't know, you think we should talk about as far as like, how we met and stuff? Internet pal of mine. (Molly laughs)

[00:18:04] Molly Rix: Well, I can give a quick synopsis.

I mean, basically I've worked in tech for quite a while. We found each other on the Out in Tech Slack channel, or workspace, I guess. I think that was at a point where I was like trying to put myself out there and like connect with other queer people. And I was like, "Does anybody want to be friends?" (in a sillly voice)

[00:18:24] Charlie Ocean: I was like, "I do."

[00:18:27] Molly Rix: Yeah. And you're like, "Hey." (both laugh)

And it was basically history from there. And you were like, "Oh -" I think you'd mentioned that you were potentially looking for, like another audio engineer at the time. And I was like, "Oh, well that just so happens to be my background in college. So I would be more than happy to work on the podcast for you."

And then, yeah, we've just, we've just had our, our friend catch ups, I guess you could call them. (Charlie laughs) So I think we've just had our phone calls every so often and like catching each other up to speed. And there always seems to be a thousand life updates each time.

[00:19:05] Charlie Ocean: Sometimes we wait too long, but it's because I feel like we communicate more than we actually do just because I'm always like, "The episode's late again. Thank you." (both laugh) I'm just going to call myself out.

[00:19:21] Molly Rix: It's okay. Make it work.

[00:19:22] Charlie Ocean: Yes. No, you're, you're wonderful. You're lovely and such a great sport about it. I think you've just gotten used to it, which is why you tend to work on it like later on a Sunday or even sometimes Monday evening. There's been times where, like, everything is finally finished and ready to publish like literally a minute before everything is supposed to actually go live - and I don't love living life that way, (laughs) but sometimes it just happens and I've just learned to roll with it.

But no, you've always been lovely and such a great support about it, and I've really enjoyed working with you because I just think it's been an interesting - I don't always get opportunities to work with friends and stuff, but I know I'm tremendously grateful for everything you do to help make it happen, because like I told you, I cannot fucking mix, level, master, whatever for shit. I never, I just can never figure it out, especially since it sounds so different on everything.

[00:20:22] Molly Rix: Yeah, that's the thing that they teach you in schools: listen to your stuff on all these different mediums. And I do that with my own, like, music too, where I'll, like, before I give myself, like, a thumbs up on a mix, I'll listen to it in, like, my car, on my headphones, and speakers out of, like, really crappy iPhone speaker, you know.

That's the best test, honestly, is listen to it through, like, really terrible speakers or, like, airpods or whatever, and if it sounds alright, then you're in good shape.

[00:20:58] Charlie Ocean: Yeah. If you can make sure to get, like, a boombox that, like, still plays cassettes and CDs or maybe it doesn't anymore but it still has those features (laughs) that used to work, like, yeah, the better.

[00:21:14] Molly Rix: I mean, in all honesty, I had zero experience working with podcasts prior to taking on your project. So I had to like teach myself how to how to work with it and figure out like, "Okay, what settings do I want to use on these plugins and what do I cut out and stuff?" And so it's been like an evolving process for me. Yeah, just different things that I try out to make it work.

But I will say my favorite thing is always the song that comes with each episode. (laughs)

[00:21:46] Charlie Ocean: I, I appreciate that. Yeah, every time I send it, to you and I'm like "A song LOL" like as a folder. (both laugh) I'm just like, I - so I'm glad you said that cuz anytime I've ever sent them I'm like, "Does she hate me? Is she like so fucking tired?" I mean cuz some of them, there's like a lot of tracks, and then some of them it's like literally just, you know, a vocal track and then like an instrumental that's like already perfectly mastered that I've pulled from somewhere.

[00:22:15] Molly Rix: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:16] Charlie Ocean: So I'm sure those days are a little bit easier, but sometimes it's just like, I'm like, "Left 30, right 30," and then, "Left 45 or something on this, and right 45 on this one." and all that.

And yeah, your face just now, (laughs) but I'm like, I just want you to know what I was doing so that, yeah.

[00:22:36] Molly Rix: Yeah, no, it's great because my current partner, well, I should say my, my fiancée.

[00:22:42] Charlie Ocean: Yes, we'll get there.

[00:22:43] Molly Rix: But yes, my fiancée, she gets to hear the songs over and over again (Charlie laughs) as I'm working on them. And that's her favorite part of the podcast too.

It's like she gets to like listen in on everything because like our workstations are next to each other. So she'll be over there playing like Stardew Valley or something like that. (Charlie laughs) And then I'll be over here and I'll be like, "Why can't I fix this?!" (both laugh)

[00:23:11] Charlie Ocean: Uh huh. Yeah. No.

And what's hysterical is that, for as long as you spend on it, I probably spend three times the amount just because like, like you talked about, it just, it gets hard to make decisions sometimes about what needs to be cut out, because the conversations almost always go on for too long, and I'm always cussing myself out in post.

And, to your point, I'm also using filters and stuff too, or effects or whatever, because I'm noticing that, like, sounds are picking up on the guest's mic that shouldn't be, but, like, when you fuck with it, you have to, like, listen all the way through, because sometimes they'll say something so low, which is why usually I'll be like, "Molly, there's parts that go low on this one. I'm sorry. " (laughs)

[00:24:00] Molly Rix: I love those. I love those notes.

[00:24:02] Charlie Ocean: Yeah. Or it gets too loud and there's literally nothing you can do about it because it's just blown out because of laughter or something that was way too close to the mic. So bless your heart and everyone who listens to those episodes that happen.

It's gotten a lot easier. I've gotten a lot better. It's just like being able to make bigger decisions about what chunks need to come out of a conversation. But yeah, it's so much. And then the fillers. You already know all of my fillers. Please don't tell people, we don't need to go there, (Molly laughs) but I have a lot of fillers. I wish I didn't say them, I just find that when I'm in the conversation, I'm not thinking about it. I'm just present to the moment. So, if I paused for a second, then I'd probably stop.

But again, I've even edited out a lot before you've listened. (laughs) So you can imagine how many more.

[00:24:54] Molly Rix: That is crazy.

[00:24:55] Charlie Ocean: Are there. Yeah. So, well, sometimes I just say, "Fuck it. Sorry, Molly." Like in my head, literally, I'll just, I literally cannot spend another second on this. So whenever I'm like, "It's like six minutes over, which I don't think has ever happened, but it's definitely been over at times. I'm just like, "Thaaanks. Appreciate you so much." (both laugh)

[00:25:16] Molly Rix: Honestly, sometimes you just have to like, throw in the towel and just be like, "You know what? It's as good as I'm going to make it. It's in someone else's hands at this point." And we've always made it work.

[00:25:26] Charlie Ocean: Yes. Yes. Jumping backwards to music stuff. You have put out an album you started by releasing all the songs separately over a pretty decent length of time, and I don't know, I haven't looked in a while, especially when you were talking about changes of documents and stuff.

Have you updated your artist name on Spotify and anywhere else your music exists?

[00:25:58] Molly Rix: Well, I've changed, not the artist name, the artist name is still Sky Ripper.

[00:26:03] Charlie Ocean: Okay.

[00:26:03] Molly Rix: But I've updated the credits with all of the songs so that it no longer has my dead name.

[00:26:12] Charlie Ocean: Yeah.

[00:26:12] Molly Rix: But it's funny though, because If you go to my most popular song, the artwork is still me pre transition, and I've just sort of said like, "Whatever," and just left it at that.

[00:26:26] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:26] Molly Rix: But I kinda did a nod to it when I put out the album, because I named it "Transformation" and it's like a similar shot, where it's like a side profile, and it's me, like a couple years into my transition.

[00:26:46] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:47] Molly Rix: So yeah, I wanted to do a callback to that and just be like, "That was me at this point, now here's me now."

And like, my music has evolved pretty radically as well. It used to be more along the lines of like traditional synth wave and now it's like, god, I would call it synth wave adjacent music. It's a little more, unique than that, I think.

[00:27:11] Charlie Ocean: Some girls are woo girls and some girls, like you, are synth girls. But, like you said, it's possible, unless people are paying close attention, that they would see those - you're like, "Okay, please."

Number one, I'm grateful we're talking through a computer right now, because please don't like fly back over here to hit me. But in some ways and I'm not saying she's the only unique person who's ever done this, but it almost feels like you're having a Taylor Swift moment, where you're dropping these like hints, dropping these clues for the fans to like, to see and hear and everything, so.

[00:27:47] Molly Rix: Well that's, yeah, that's actually not too far off, because with the titles of my tracks, I tend to keep them just like one word or two. And they're usually related to something that's going on in my life at that time. There's a song that I released called "Lament," and if you look at the album cover, it's like these tiny little Doc Martens on Like a blanket, and there's like a fall theme and stuff.

That was titled "Lament" because my wife at the time had just experienced a miscarriage. So that was pretty rough on us. I wanted to dedicate something to the kid that never came to be, unfortunately. It's pretty wild, like, thinking that I was almost a mom at one point.

[00:28:39] Charlie Ocean: I just really appreciate you normalizing that experience, in a way, because I feel like now that I've entered this part of my life where more and more of my friends are becoming parents, there's just so much shame and stigma around people talking about things like a miscarriage.

And so, you never know what your friends are fighting because sometimes they can have a few. And I know that they can also have dates that are really tricky for them because that reminder comes up, like you said, of just like what could have been.

[00:29:21] Molly Rix: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:21] Charlie Ocean: And especially if they've been trying for a long time to have that happen, so - which is why so many folks don't say until a certain period of time where they feel like statistically, they're likely to carry the term, so.

[00:29:36] Molly Rix: Yeah, we hadn't made any announcements yet. That was sort of my, I guess, post-announcement.

I didn't specifically say like, like, "Oh yeah, my wife had a miscarriage." It was more just, it's more for me, the titles are more for me.

[00:29:54] Charlie Ocean: Sure.

[00:29:56] Molly Rix: Like, for example, my track "Dissolve." That was named after dissolving estrogen under my tongue. (both laugh)

[00:30:05] Charlie Ocean: Dropping a different kind of drug under your tongue. I love that.

[00:30:09] Molly Rix: Yeah, exactly. Fill me up with estrogen, baby. (laughs)

[00:30:14] Charlie Ocean: Jumping back a little bit, because, you know, we've alluded to your current boo.

[00:30:21] Molly Rix: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:21] Charlie Ocean: This is the part where I'm like, "Charlie, are you really saying this?"

Finding love again, after your divorce, has been a significant part of your journey. And also, with you discovering that you're a trans woman and just everything that had sort of come out of that birthday weekend in 2020, can you talk about how your relationships have been impacted both romantic and otherwise since that birthday weekend?

[00:31:00] Molly Rix: Oof, wow, that is a, loaded, that is a loaded question. Well, I'll start with my ex-wife.

Her and I are still best friends. For us, it was just a matter of, like, it wasn't even my transness that ended the relationship.

[00:31:20] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:21] Molly Rix: I mean, she's also part of the community. It wasn't a matter of like not being attracted to me in that sense. It was just a matter of like, we realized that we weren't a good fit for each other anymore and needed different things in our lives.

[00:31:38] Charlie Ocean: And you'd been together a long time.

[00:31:40] Molly Rix: 13 years, yeah. So it's been a while. I truly was living like the whole, stereotypical like American life where I was like, get married young, get a house, almost had a kid. And then things just sort of like - everything came crumbling down.

When I realized I was trans, everything changed. Not a single aspect of my life remain the same.

So yeah, I ended up getting divorced, but let me tell you that was the easiest divorce I'm sure that like any lawyers have ever had to handle. (Charlie laughs) So we made it work very easily.

I have a very close relationship with my sisters, probably even closer than it was before. My parents, unfortunately, are not supportive. I am currently no contact with them. So that was a huge deal for me. I spent about a year trying to get them to love me unconditionally and trying to make concessions and like slowly, you know, incorporate feminine things to like try and make them a little more comfortable and - which in hindsight, I'm like, "Shouldn't have had to do that."

But yeah, so it's unfortunate. And I've had a lot of people tell me, like, "Hold out hope," you know, that they'll come around. And I don't know I'm not really at that place anymore where I'm like, sure, there's a chance, but I'm not going to hold out hope for it, because I did that for long enough and just kind of gave up at a certain point.

Friendship wise, all my friends are still my friends. I didn't have any negative reactions there. Same deal with work. I was really blessed to have nothing but overwhelmingly positive responses from people at work at multiple jobs, actually.

Dating again was - (Charlie laughs)

[00:33:31] Charlie Ocean: That was fun for me. I loved all the stories, so thank you.

[00:33:36] Molly Rix: Dating again was interesting, because I hadn't dated anybody since junior year of high school, so it had been quite a while.

Well, first of all, I was trying to figure out how to use the dating apps. (both laugh) I was like, I was like, "Okay, now I have to make a profile for myself and I have to disclose that I'm still currently married and I know that's going to be a detractor for a lot of people."

But it actually kind of filtered out a lot of the people that probably wouldn't have been a good match for me. So it ended up working out in my favor.

[00:34:09] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:10] Molly Rix: I went on dates with a few different people and I like learned more about myself and what I was looking for. Then eventually I met my current partner and we've been together for like a year and three months or so.

Yeah, about a month ago, I, popped the question and we are currently engaged and I am patiently waiting for her to pop the question back to me.

[00:34:34] Charlie Ocean: Aw.

[00:34:35] Molly Rix: Yeah.

[00:34:36] Charlie Ocean: I think it's really adorable that that's been, I don't want to say a trend, but just - not in the way of like, "This is trendy. (Molly laughs) Like, all the lesbians are doing it. It's the new U-Haul."

It's, it's more like, (laughs) it's just been really beautiful to see queer couples, especially those that are more public, that you see, okay, this one proposed, and now this one proposed, and it's like, "Well, why would they do that?" And it's like, "Because they fucking can." And they wanted to, and we get to reimagine what it's like to be with someone and how they show up in our lives and the life that we build together and everything.

So I think it's really beautiful.

[00:35:20] Molly Rix: I'm very much looking forward to it and going through that experience and to me that - well, first of all, fuck gender roles, (Charlie laughs) but also I like the idea of having that feminine experience. Like, to me, it reads as feminine, and that's gonna feel very euphoric to me, because it's gonna feel very, like, gender affirming, and it's gonna be really cool.

I'm looking forward to that, very much so.

[00:35:47] Charlie Ocean: Yeah. I think there's been a lot of surprising ways that's come up for you, either in dating or whatever, that you've had your gender affirmed in that you just haven't experienced before.

[00:36:01] Molly Rix: Yeah, so I exclusively went on dates with trans women.

[00:36:07] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:08] Molly Rix: Yeah, that was very different for me.

I was, it was interesting being with people who understood me and like had a shared experience in that regard. It felt comfortable and it felt safe.

[00:36:22] Charlie Ocean: Basically, any friend I've had who's gone T4T, so, dating other trans people, I feel like they just never go back. (laughs)

[00:36:30] Molly Rix: Honestly, yeah. No, it's, like, it's super affirming because you're like, you know, I don't have to explain myself to this person, they understand, and they've had similar experiences to me.

So yeah, T4T is awesome. (Charlie laughs) I, I, I fully support it.

[00:36:48] Charlie Ocean: Yeah, that might be the one song that you deviate from your pattern, in the future. Where it's just like "T4T is Awesome," or maybe that's the album title. I don't know, (Molly laughs) but yeah.

No, and it's interesting, and I also don't want to say that to discredit cisgender folks or folks who are part of LGBTQ+ communities in other ways and that they can't be affirming too, but it's a special kind of relationship, like you were saying.

And it doesn't mean that everyone who's trans or nonbinary is going to want to date that way, however, like you said, I, I feel like, yeah, there's a lot of conversations you don't have to have, or feel like you have to have, there's a lot of conversations you get to have. And you can really just, like, be more presenT4The conversation.

Versus like, I don't know - not like you still don't have some sort of education as far as like swapping of like who you are at your cores and stuff and what you want out of life and everything, but not having to do like trans 101 or pronouns 101 or like, which genitalia I have 101 or, (both laugh) you know, or be worried like - when it could be also true, you know, it could potentially also be true for like T4T relationships, but like -

You know, like in my case, have a partner and, not trans, not nonbinary, but have a partner that at least was part of the LGBTQ+ community, but wasn't looking forward to me having surgery. She was worried she wouldn't be attracted to me anymore and all of that and I was like great I'm having like a wonderful moment and you're like am I gonna be attracted to Charlie anymore like, Jesus. So that was -

[00:38:30] Molly Rix: That's rough. Yeah.

[00:38:31] Charlie Ocean: Yeah, but and again, I'm not saying that's always true, but I do think there's a magicness to T4T for sure, or there can be

[00:38:41] Molly Rix: Absolutely, yeah, I think that that is true in a lot of different areas of relationships, whether you're looking at like the sexual side, or the, I don't know, the love side, (Charlie laughs) or, I don't know.

[00:38:58] Charlie Ocean: You found love again! Oh my god.

[00:39:00] Molly Rix: I found love again! But yes, no, T4T, because I know I've kind of touched on like the love side, but yeah, from like a sexual perspective, yeah, it was super affirming having those encounters with people who identify the same as me. That made a huge impact on my life, honestly.

Being loved by someone in a way that felt very affirming. was really, really nice and just not feel like I had to fit any specific role or anything like that.

[00:39:33] Charlie Ocean: Yeah. And going back to this whole trip for your birthday, being such a pivotal moment, like you said, there, there wasn't a single part of all of that that didn't change or touch your life, because, like you said, eventually it led to a separation and divorce from your wife, former wife, or you were selling the home that you had been, you know, living in together, and finding new places to live, and dating people, and job stuff, and should I do HRT or not, and just re-examining every part of your life.

Which I actually think is really beautiful because it allowed you to learn more about yourself, I think. I mean, it's not to dismiss parts that were challenging, for sure. And you're living a, I'd say, a pretty different life from what you were before that weekend in, I think, pretty positive ways, but also not to discredit, again, moments that have been hard or are still, like, ongoing, I don't know, tenderness exists.

[00:40:51] Molly Rix: I look at it as reinventing myself. Yeah, I reinvented myself in terms of everything. And like, when I look back at how I lived and presented and just existed prior to transition, it was something where like, I was really trying to embrace my masculinity up until that point, and then, yeah, everything just came crashing down and everything that I had known was no longer relevant.

I was hiding aspects of who I was until I was comfortable showing them. I redefined my partner, I redefined my living situation, my family, my - hell, my religion, and just all of that. It was pretty shocking.

And it happened over the course of about three years, I would say.

[00:41:45] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:46] Molly Rix: It was kind of like one thing after another, and it was very brutal, lots of therapy, but I feel like I'm finally on the other end of that now.

And I've been finding aspects of myself to explore and redefine myself now. And I'm still very much working with that at this point in my life, like hobbies, and religions, beliefs, all that stuff. You know, I'm really trying to dive into that headfirst and like tell myself that it's okay to try out different things and yeah, live in that gray area that we were talking about before.

[00:42:26] Charlie Ocean: Yeah. When you took up roller derby in my head, I remember thinking -

[00:42:30] Molly Rix: Oh yeah.

[00:42:30] Charlie Ocean: "Oh my God, can you stop being so sexy? I just cannot, just please stop." (both laugh) As your friend, I kindly - no.

But like even throughout this call/conversation (laughs) - it feels like a call 'cause I'm used to us, like -

[00:42:48] Molly Rix: I know.

[00:42:48] Charlie Ocean: Zooming and stuff. But even throughout this conversation, like it's been so fucking cute to like watch you just like beam. And it's not like you weren't happy before, I just don't think you'd fully tapped into your happiness potential. And now you're just, you're beaming and it's so great to see you in that, that space.

[00:43:15] Molly Rix: I am a lot happier now than I was about a year or so ago. It's actually right around this time that I moved into my new apartment. Yeah, that was a big change for me. And I was like, how am I going to get back to this life I was living and I need to rebuild it and it needs to be perfect.

And now I'm, I'm re evaluating those thoughts and trying to determine if that's still what I want.

[00:43:49] Charlie Ocean: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:49] Molly Rix: I mean, certainly my current partner and I have dream plans. Woohoo! (Charlie laughs)

[00:43:55] Charlie Ocean: As you wave your arms.

[00:43:58] Molly Rix: Yes. (laughs) You know, whether or not those come true or not remains to be seen and that's fine. You know, we'll see what happens. I'm willing to be flexible with all this stuff. And that's not to say that, like, there are still, yeah, there's still things that linger.

[00:44:16] Charlie Ocean: I think throughout this conversation, I'm also reflecting on how many different kinds of community you've been able to tap into and how, I don't know, fun and exciting that must be for you, even if like, you know, maybe some of them you're not actively participating in right now and may not come back to, I think it's really cool that you've been allowing yourself to explore which communities feel good to you.

And now you're like doing leader shit, like support groups or - all sorts of stuff. (Molly laughs)

[00:44:52] Molly Rix: Yeah, well, I will say, and you touched on this earlier, that the, the roller derby thing. Yeah, I was with roller derby for like a year and it was a really good outlet and a really great community for me, because my teammates were amazing and I love them dearly.

It just got to a point where I, I wasn't able to do the skills and I broke down crying like three practices in a row because I was in the midst of all the divorce stuff and it was really emotional. And so I just couldn't make it happen at the time, but I'll always hold a special place in my heart ,for that time in my life.

And I've got some really great stickers from there too. Yeah, someone on the team made stickers and, one of them is a rainbow and on one end it says "roller derby" and on the other side it says "gays." (Charlie laughs) And it's really endearing. The other one is a sticker of, it's like a silhouette of someone skating in like a skirt, which was my thing. I always skated in a skirt and my derby name was Estra Gin. (Charlie laughs) And I was very proud of that; seemed to go over pretty well, so.

[00:46:07] Charlie Ocean: It did. No, your helmet was, was awesome. You had all sorts of fun stuff on there.

[00:46:13] Molly Rix: I had some of your stickers on there too.

[00:46:15] Charlie Ocean: And even some of mine. (makes "awww' sound) Not to be confused with like, for music making, but like, the "aww" emphasis on that part, just for - I have to make a terrible music joke, okay?

(both laugh) It was so bad, I know, because you were staring at me like, "What are you saying, Charlie?" (both laugh)

[00:46:36] Molly Rix: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, no, I think other communities have been, yeah, super welcoming and really great. I mean, I'm specifically with a number of groups at the UU church. There's like different ones that pertain to like, my interests. My fiance and I are planning to start a trans support group over there and get that rolling.

So that's in the works. And I'm very excited to lead that. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to try. (laughs)

[00:47:10] Charlie Ocean: And that's like the thing, right? I think there's a lot of folks that don't recognize that they're leaders, because even if you're a step or two ahead of somebody else, there's a lot of value in that because they don't know how you got where you are, so - again, even if it's only a few steps, don't discredit your knowledge, your experience, etc. because there's absolutely people who will look to you.

And you've even like been in a leadership role within your company. Like, I mean, this is your first podcast interview, right, and you just very publicly shared your story for the first time within your own company, which I think is scarier than going to another company and then sharing your story and then be like, "Peace, thank you for listening." (Molly laughs) and running away. Right?

So, you've just been doing all sorts of things that are definitely, I don't know, you've been doing scary shit and you've been finding that each time you get through it, and you're also more able to take on, like, fun scary shit, so I'm really proud of you for all of those reasons too.

[00:48:28] Molly Rix: Thank you. I appreciate that.

[00:48:30] Charlie Ocean: You're welcome.

What's one allyship tip you'd like everyone listening to consider?

[00:48:38] Molly Rix: Always be willing to reinvent yourself and learn from other people in areas that you may not have experience.

[00:48:47] Charlie Ocean: Molly, I love you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. It was such a joy chatting with you because, as everyone has heard now, there was lots of laughter, so thank you for that. Thank you for taking us through what the last handful of years have been like for you. I've already said this a handful of times, and I'm gonna say it again: I am so proud of you.

Alright folks, the final three self-reflection questions, and again, stick after for more instructions about the giveaway.

4. Do I consider myself to be a leader? Why or why not?

5. Has a question come up for me that has completely altered my life? What was it?

6. What's an attraction I have that may seem left of field?

Alright folks, here's the deal. I want to make sure that as many people can hear the stories on this podcast as possible - and this is where I need you. All you have to do to enter is leave a review or a star rating for the podcast wherever you listen. That could be Apple, Spotify, GoodPods, Podchaser. Take a screenshot and share it with me, and you will be entered to win one free item from our merch shop. That means a t-shirt, a hoodie, whatever your heart desires, any of the designs that currently exist.

If you've already done it, great! Just take a screenshot of that. By the end of Pride Month, I will select one person at random from the list of folks who submit, and everyone else who participates will have an opportunity to win something else of lesser value while supplies last.

Check out the show notes for more details. Thanks again, everyone and happy Pride!

Visit AllyshipIsAVerb.com for any resources and a full transcript of the episode.

And remember, sometimes allyship means being willing to reinvent yourself and learn from other people.